• Packet Radio

    From Wolfstag@21:2/164 to All on Thu Apr 23 05:40:32 2020
    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give it a
    try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother on ocassion would be awesome.

    Lee
    KN4TGK

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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Wolfstag on Fri Apr 24 11:58:00 2020
    On 04-23-20 05:40, Wolfstag wrote to All <=-

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
    it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
    on ocassion would be awesome.

    On my todo list. I have a gateway setup, except it needs a radio. :)


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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Wolfstag on Thu Apr 23 13:06:00 2020
    Wolfstag wrote to All <=-

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
    it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
    on ocassion would be awesome.

    I'd like to know too. I asked others on the T mailing list and a few have done it
    but not in a while. I'm getting interested in getting a tech license and would like to give it a spin with my T.

    Do you have a license?


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  • From marlow@21:3/103 to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 18:57:14 2020
    On 23 Apr 2020, Wolfstag said the following...

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
    it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
    on ocassion would be awesome.

    On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet Radio.
    I've rebuild it recently and brought it back online after over 20 years of hibernation, but haven't sorted the packet radio end out yet.

    -M

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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to marlow on Mon Apr 27 15:53:00 2020
    marlow wrote to Wolfstag <=-

    On 23 Apr 2020, Wolfstag said the following...

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
    it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
    on ocassion would be awesome.

    On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet
    Radio. I've rebuild it recently and brought it back online after over
    20 years of hibernation, but haven't sorted the packet radio end out
    yet.

    Eager to laern about packet radio myself. I haven't had a chance to read much other than some light descriptive texts but I will at some point. I'm fascinated with contacting the internet through shortwave frequencies. It blows me away.


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  • From alterego@21:2/116 to marlow on Tue Apr 28 17:18:08 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: marlow to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 2020 06:57 pm

    On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet Radio.

    I would love to learn how to do this - I think it would be cool.

    I'm a long way from being able to do it (and wouldnt know where to start), but all the same, curious to know what's involved.

    It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
    ...δεσπ



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  • From Wolfstag@21:2/164 to calcmandan on Tue Apr 28 06:11:08 2020
    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these
    days.

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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Wolfstag on Tue Apr 28 05:43:00 2020
    Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it
    these days.

    From what I've read, it's a dying art. People still use from what I understand but the numbers are decreasing. I am a member of the T listserv (owners of TRS80 model 100/102/200) and quite a few of them are HAM operators but many of them haven't done it in a while. Some say they would be there aren't any gateways near them.


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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to alterego on Tue Apr 28 05:49:00 2020
    alterego wrote to marlow <=-

    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: marlow to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 2020 06:57 pm

    On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet Radio.

    I would love to learn how to do this - I think it would be cool.

    I'm a long way from being able to do it (and wouldnt know where to
    start), but all the same, curious to know what's involved.

    It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
    ...óEó*

    Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.


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  • From alterego@21:2/116 to calcmandan on Wed Apr 29 09:50:48 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am

    Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.

    That is a great idea - I fear I wont be able to put aside much time to do this (now at least).

    (Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
    ...δεσπ



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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to alterego on Wed Apr 29 11:52:22 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am



    (Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to
    begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio

    To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is required.

    The basic setup is:

    Radio (2m or 70cm) and Antenna
    TNC (1200bps or 9600bps, with 99% being 1200bps) [Think of the TNC as the modem]
    Computer running terminal software or bbs software with the AX25 stack
    loaded.


    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a
    number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.





    \/orlon



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  • From alterego@21:2/116 to vorlon on Wed Apr 29 13:30:18 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: vorlon to alterego on Wed Apr 29 2020 11:52 am

    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.

    Thank you - very useful...

    Do you run a setup? What range are we talking?

    My my calc you are about 120klm from me (as the crow flies) - would we get such a distance?
    ...δεσπ



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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to alterego on Tue Apr 28 21:10:00 2020
    alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am

    Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.

    That is a great idea - I fear I wont be able to put aside much time to
    do this (now at least).

    (Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    We could, but I am not sure how effective it would be considering I only download qwk packets twice a day at most. I'm on IRC far more. But we can restrict it to an echo.

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
    ...óEó*

    You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?


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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to calcmandan on Wed Apr 29 20:20:30 2020
    On 28 Apr 2020 at 09:10p, calcmandan pondered and said...

    You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?

    Are you based in the USA?

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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Wed Apr 29 19:33:00 2020
    On 04-28-20 05:49, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-

    Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.

    That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to alterego on Wed Apr 29 19:36:00 2020
    On 04-28-20 17:18, alterego wrote to marlow <=-

    It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
    ...δεσ*

    Well, everyone is on the wrong side of mountains from me. :(


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Wolfstag on Wed Apr 29 19:49:00 2020
    On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it
    these days.

    Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to alterego on Wed Apr 29 19:51:00 2020
    On 04-29-20 09:50, alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    Hmm, could do. I can feel experiments with cross network gating coming on. :D

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
    ...δεσ*

    I must check out what the AMC has on their site. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Wed Apr 29 20:01:00 2020
    On 04-29-20 11:52, vorlon wrote to alterego <=-

    To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is required.

    Is that still true, with Foundation calls now allowed to use digital modes? However, there is still a technical issue, because of the 4 letter suffix, which isn't supported by AX.25. Work is being done on resolving that issue, but hasn't been completed yet.

    The basic setup is:

    Radio (2m or 70cm) and Antenna
    TNC (1200bps or 9600bps, with 99% being 1200bps) [Think of the TNC as
    the modem]
    Computer running terminal software or bbs software with the AX25 stack loaded.


    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.

    I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its only user. :)
    Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good position. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Wed Apr 29 21:02:00 2020
    On 04-28-20 21:10, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    We could, but I am not sure how effective it would be considering I
    only download qwk packets twice a day at most. I'm on IRC far more. But
    we can restrict it to an echo.

    I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
    ...óEó*

    You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?

    Everyone country has its specifics.


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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to alterego on Wed Apr 29 22:15:02 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: vorlon to alterego on Wed Apr 29 2020 11:52 am

    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and
    there are a number of software packages. The most common one
    being FBB.

    Thank you - very useful...

    Do you run a setup? What range are we talking?

    Not any more, although I still do have the gear.

    My my calc you are about 120klm from me (as the crow flies) - would
    we get such a distance? ...δεσπ
    Not without going through a packet repeater, and then the range is
    limited to the normall 2m (144mhz) distance.






    \/orlon



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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Wed Apr 29 22:20:56 2020
    On 04-29-20 11:52, vorlon wrote to alterego <=-

    To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is
    required.

    Is that still true, with Foundation calls now allowed to use
    digital modes? However, there is still a technical issue, because
    of the 4 letter suffix, which isn't supported by AX.25. Work is
    being done on resolving that issue, but hasn't been completed yet.

    Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that (might* be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders are not permitted to
    use any digital modes.



    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and
    there are a number of software packages. The most common obe
    being FBB.

    I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its
    only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
    position. :)
    Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.




    \/orlon



    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Avon on Wed Apr 29 10:42:00 2020
    Avon wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 28 Apr 2020 at 09:10p, calcmandan pondered and said...

    You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?

    Are you based in the USA?

    Yessir


    ... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Wed Apr 29 10:48:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 04-28-20 21:10, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    We could, but I am not sure how effective it would be considering I
    only download qwk packets twice a day at most. I'm on IRC far more. But
    we can restrict it to an echo.

    I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/

    Okay, but I'm not sure what you mean.


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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Wed Apr 29 11:07:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 04-28-20 05:49, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-

    Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.

    That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
    and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)

    Is that a bbs? Which network is the echo on?

    By the way, I was perusing telnetbbsguide.com and found a board called emcomm ny and here is their info:

    emcommny.synchro.net

    A Synchronet BBS linked to amateur radio packet station KC2MHA. Users of the ham radio functions limited to those with amateur radio licenses.

    The KC2MHA packet radio node can be accessed via the door menu. The kc2mha packet node runs on bpq32 with radio ports on 145.050mhz, 14.105mhz, telnet and axip Internet links. Ham radio packet connections can also connect via radio to the EMCOMMNY BBS via the BPQ node main menu. You just never know who may be lurking and from where!

    The bbs menu system is dull downed a bit to accommodate the slow 300-1200 baud radio transfer rates. Some radio connections taking several digipeater hops to reach the kc2mha node slowing it down even more.

    Sign in with your call sign for packet radio access. Other telnet BBS functions are available to non HAM users.

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  • From Phoobar@21:2/147 to calcmandan on Wed Apr 29 20:50:04 2020
    You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?
    Are you based in the USA?
    Yessir

    The 1st place I would recommend is www.qrz.com. They have exams I've used on all 3 of my exams (tech/general/amateur extra). There are also free
    online/PDF books to help you study.

    Passed every exam with only taking them each once. May I recommend taking the exams on QRZ until you can pass them every time with 90% & then pass your
    real exam with flying colors.

    73
    Don Lowery
    KA0TT/AE

    ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Thu Apr 30 12:47:00 2020
    On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that (might*
    be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders are not permitted
    to use any digital modes.

    Well, it has happened and you don't have to go to far to hear them on digital - like DMR. :) Now the issue is working out how to give them 3 letter suffixes, so they can use all digital modes. :)

    I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its
    only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
    position. :)
    Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.

    Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)


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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Thu Apr 30 10:14:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to vorlon <=-

    On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that (might*
    be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders are not permitted
    to use any digital modes.

    Well, it has happened and you don't have to go to far to hear them on digital - like DMR. :) Now the issue is working out how to give them 3 letter suffixes, so they can use all digital modes. :)

    I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its
    only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
    position. :)
    Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.

    Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)

    I have an interest in the same thing. Do you have a license as well?


    ... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Fri May 1 11:24:14 2020
    On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that
    (might* be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders
    are not permitted to use any digital modes.

    Well, it has happened and you don't have to go to far to hear them
    on digital - like DMR. :) Now the issue is working out how to give
    them 3 letter suffixes, so they can use all digital modes. :)

    I've been out of the loop for what's current for a number of years due
    to living location.

    I would love to put the DM-700 into the car. The radio and antenna part
    is fine, it's a location for the controll head that's the issue.


    I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be
    its only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in
    a good position. :)
    Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.

    Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS.
    :)

    Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That was always a
    issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and IRLP.






    \/orlon



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    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Fri May 1 09:17:00 2020
    On 04-29-20 10:48, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/

    Okay, but I'm not sure what you mean.

    In practice it means that once IRC is bruied behind another window, the client unexpectedly quits or the system is rebooted, IRC is promptly forgotten. :/


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Fri May 1 09:24:00 2020
    On 04-29-20 11:07, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
    and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)

    Is that a bbs? Which network is the echo on?

    No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated to studying for one's amateur licence.

    You can participate on Freeway (freeway.vkradio.com), or grab an infopack (can be downloaded from the VK_INFO file area) and apply to join. I currently offer FTN (binkp officially, but also FTP is unofficially available) and QWK feeds. Freeway also accepts anonymous HTTP and FTP if you want to download the infopack without creating an account.

    By the way, I was perusing telnetbbsguide.com and found a board called emcomm ny and here is their info:

    emcommny.synchro.net

    A Synchronet BBS linked to amateur radio packet station KC2MHA. Users
    of the ham radio functions limited to those with amateur radio
    licenses.

    Cool. :)

    The KC2MHA packet radio node can be accessed via the door menu. The kc2mha packet node runs on bpq32 with radio ports on 145.050mhz, 14.105mhz, telnet and axip Internet links. Ham radio packet
    connections can also connect via radio to the EMCOMMNY BBS via the BPQ node main menu. You just never know who may be lurking and from where!

    Interesting sounding system. I haven't yet linked mine to packet, but it's technically feasible, once I add a radio to my packet node. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Fri May 1 09:25:00 2020
    On 04-30-20 10:14, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)

    I have an interest in the same thing. Do you have a license as well?

    Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)

    But in short, yes.


    ... It's a can of worms full of Pandora's boxes.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Fri May 1 19:18:00 2020
    On 05-01-20 11:24, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've been out of the loop for what's current for a number of years due
    to living location.

    The change was made earlier this year. :)

    I would love to put the DM-700 into the car. The radio and antenna part
    is fine, it's a location for the controll head that's the issue.

    That can be a challenge. :/

    Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That was always
    a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and IRLP.

    I'd have a lot of doubts about the kernel AX.25, but you can always use either LinBPQ or JNOS.


    ... A life? Where can I download that?
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Fri May 1 10:25:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 04-29-20 10:48, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/

    Okay, but I'm not sure what you mean.

    In practice it means that once IRC is bruied behind another window, the client unexpectedly quits or the system is rebooted, IRC is promptly forgotten. :/

    OIC. Okay.


    ... Daniel Traechin
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Fri May 1 10:52:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 04-30-20 10:14, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)

    I have an interest in the same thing. Do you have a license as well?

    Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)

    But in short, yes.

    Yeah now that you say that, it does. I'm very unfamiliar with all of it with bits of details absorbed by osmosis.


    ... Daniel Traechin
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Fri May 1 10:59:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 04-29-20 11:07, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
    and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)

    Is that a bbs? Which network is the echo on?

    No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
    to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even
    wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated
    to studying for one's amateur licence.

    The bbs I connect to doesn't have that echo. Should I ask my sysop to connect? Or would you rather I join your board?


    You can participate on Freeway (freeway.vkradio.com), or grab an
    infopack (can be downloaded from the VK_INFO file area) and apply to
    join. I currently offer FTN (binkp officially, but also FTP is unofficially available) and QWK feeds. Freeway also accepts anonymous
    HTTP and FTP if you want to download the infopack without creating an account.

    Interesting sounding system. I haven't yet linked mine to packet, but it's technically feasible, once I add a radio to my packet node. :)

    I was on mumble with digital man and he said they have vertrauen, I think he did at least, connected as well. He seemed to think that alot of effort goes into making packet radio happen for one minor feature. I understand where he's coming from, but to me, the thought of sending messages via radio is quite interesting. Not like the military and government don't do the very thing anyway.

    Now, I've seen demos of packet radio and it appears to only be designed for quick messages. I wonder if the limitations are defined by FCC rules. I'm aware the connection is quite slow but how hard it would be to implement stuff like qwk packet transfers or email to the capabilities. It's all rather small.


    ... Daniel Traechin
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to calcmandan on Sat May 2 15:15:52 2020
    On 29 Apr 2020 at 10:42a, calcmandan pondered and said...

    Are you based in the USA?

    Yessir

    Coolio.

    The it's the ARRL that you'll want as a starting point for licensing info and training resources. Over here our New Zealand equivalent is the NZART and
    their study guide info can be found at https://www.nzart.org.nz/learn/study-guides

    I hope this helps :)

    Best, Paul

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sat May 2 15:17:00 2020
    On 01 May 2020 at 09:24a, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
    to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated to studying for one's amateur licence.

    ..and equally you're more than welcome to keep chatting here :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Sat May 2 14:25:34 2020
    On 05-01-20 11:24, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I've been out of the loop for what's current for a number of
    years due to living location.

    The change was made earlier this year. :)

    oh ok.

    I would love to put the DM-700 into the car. The radio and
    antenna part is fine, it's a location for the controll head
    that's the issue.

    That can be a challenge. :/


    Yeh, modern cars don't make it easy to mount extra gear. #0(


    Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That
    was always a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and
    IRLP.

    I'd have a lot of doubts about the kernel AX.25, but you can always

    Back when I was doing ax25, those options hadn't become stable
    enough, and I wasn't happy with the way they worked.





    \/orlon



    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sat May 2 15:21:00 2020
    On 05-01-20 10:25, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In practice it means that once IRC is bruied behind another window, the client unexpectedly quits or the system is rebooted, IRC is promptly forgotten. :/

    OIC. Okay.

    Yeah, I can be very much an "out of sight, out of mind" person. It's annoying and frustrating at times. :/


    ... A day for firm decisions!!!!! Or is it?
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sat May 2 15:22:00 2020
    On 05-01-20 10:52, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)

    But in short, yes.

    Yeah now that you say that, it does. I'm very unfamiliar with all of it with bits of details absorbed by osmosis.

    Cool, that's a good starting point. :) Now to get you up to speed and ready to sit the exam. :)


    ... Many Myths are based on truth. Spock, stardate 5832.3.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sat May 2 15:29:00 2020
    On 05-01-20 10:59, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The bbs I connect to doesn't have that echo. Should I ask my sysop to connect? Or would you rather I join your board?

    I'm easy, it's up to you and your sysop as to which way you'd prefer. WHatever works for you.

    I was on mumble with digital man and he said they have vertrauen, I
    think he did at least, connected as well. He seemed to think that alot
    of effort goes into making packet radio happen for one minor feature. I understand where he's coming from, but to me, the thought of sending messages via radio is quite interesting. Not like the military and government don't do the very thing anyway.

    These days, I'm more likely to use Winlink, which can use radio to send email. I have sent email from the outback using HF radio, with a 600-700km path to the mail gateway

    Now, I've seen demos of packet radio and it appears to only be designed for quick messages. I wonder if the limitations are defined by FCC
    rules. I'm aware the connection is quite slow but how hard it would be
    to implement stuff like qwk packet transfers or email to the
    capabilities. It's all rather small.

    The AX.25 protocol used by packet is roughly analogous to Ethernet for wired networks - not perfectly, because AX.25 does have the concept of digipeaters, which aren't in any other link layer protocol, and it also has other higher (transport) level functions like connected mode. When running IP over packet, the connected mode is not recommended, because it can interfere with TCP's own timeouts.

    But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.


    ... To an alligator, do we taste like chicken?
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    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Sat May 2 15:30:00 2020
    On 05-02-20 15:17, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 01 May 2020 at 09:24a, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
    to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated to studying for one's amateur licence.

    ..and equally you're more than welcome to keep chatting here :)

    That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D


    ... Fotoflagellation - The act of waving a Polaroid so it develops faster.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Sat May 2 15:42:00 2020
    On 05-02-20 14:25, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The change was made earlier this year. :)

    oh ok.

    And as I hinted at, the change has created an issue in that the VKnFxxx callsigns don't fit into the address headers of some protocols. Some examples I know of:

    Packet radio only allows 6 characters for the callsign, plus a 4 bit SSID, so the 7 character callsigns don't fit.

    D-STAR has addressing modes that don't accommodate the longer callsigns, because D-STAR only has 8 characters for the address field, and some routing and linking commands require two characters, leaving only 6 for the callsign itself.

    So the ACMA now needs to come up with a solution so that Foundation calls can fully usilise their new digital privileges. I had a feeling back in 2005 that the 4 letter F call format would come back to bite them in the bum. It took 15 years, but I was right. :)

    Yeh, modern cars don't make it easy to mount extra gear. #0(

    Yeah, I'll probably have to cross that bridge in a few years when I update my car. :/ I might consider just getting the pros to do it next time.

    Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That
    was always a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and
    IRLP.

    I'd have a lot of doubts about the kernel AX.25, but you can always

    Back when I was doing ax25, those options hadn't become stable
    enough, and I wasn't happy with the way they worked.

    My system is using LinBPQ. Seems to work. And one advantage is you don't need to subnet the radio IPs from services hosted on the LAN, which allows a bit more flexibility. While I could subnet - with LAN based services using 44.136.76.0/25 and radio based nodes using 44.136.76.128/25, I don't have to. I can leave it as a /24, and tell LinBPQ what addresses are on RF. Currently, I have 2 on test, though without a radio, all that ping does is flash the Tx LED on the TNC-Pi. :D

    If you want to play when I'm on air, youll need to either:

    1. Get to me on 2m - highly unlikely; or
    2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh tunneling. Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses over the tunnels.

    I used to use G8BPQ on DOS back in 1991, so I am familiar with the basic concepts, though this is the first time I've used it directly connected to IP.


    ... All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Sat May 2 10:34:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-01-20 10:52, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)

    But in short, yes.

    Yeah now that you say that, it does. I'm very unfamiliar with all of it with bits of details absorbed by osmosis.

    Cool, that's a good starting point. :) Now to get you up to speed and ready to sit the exam. :)

    I joined your board yesterday and dug around a bit. It was still my workday so I didn't stay long.


    ... Daniel Traechin
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Sat May 2 10:43:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-01-20 10:59, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    The bbs I connect to doesn't have that echo. Should I ask my sysop to connect? Or would you rather I join your board?

    I'm easy, it's up to you and your sysop as to which way you'd prefer. WHatever works for you.

    It doesn't matter, I joined your board yesterday. I'm not going to bug him.

    These days, I'm more likely to use Winlink, which can use radio to send email. I have sent email from the outback using HF radio, with a
    600-700km path to the mail gateway

    Sounds like winlink would require windows or at least a windows VM to make work. I think it's sick that you managed to send/receive email using radio from such a distance. That is soooo awesome.

    The AX.25 protocol used by packet is roughly analogous to Ethernet for wired networks - not perfectly, because AX.25 does have the concept of digipeaters, which aren't in any other link layer protocol, and it also has other higher (transport) level functions like connected mode. When running IP over packet, the connected mode is not recommended, because
    it can interfere with TCP's own timeouts.

    Since I posted this I've seen a winlink demo on computerphile's youtube channel. The demo showed the fetching of a basic html page and a few other features. There were timeouts, as you said, with tcp. It would be interesting to pursue this

    But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
    said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
    local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
    become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
    do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.

    I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a habit to log into your board more often.

    Daniel Traechin

    ...Visit my at: gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Avon on Sat May 2 11:10:00 2020
    Avon wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 29 Apr 2020 at 10:42a, calcmandan pondered and said...

    Are you based in the USA?

    Yessir

    Coolio.

    The it's the ARRL that you'll want as a starting point for licensing
    info and training resources. Over here our New Zealand equivalent is
    the NZART and their study guide info can be found at https://www.nzart.org.nz/learn/study-guides

    Yeah I've been listening to the ARRL weekly podcast now a few months. One of my best friends has been a HAM for thirty some odd years now and he's so hardcore about it that he refuses to do anything but morse. I'm like pffff.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sun May 3 14:01:00 2020
    On 05-02-20 10:34, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I joined your board yesterday and dug around a bit. It was still my workday so I didn't stay long.

    Ahh OK, probably easiest to grab a QWK packet sometime. :)


    ... Old Celts never die, they just have harp failure.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sun May 3 14:07:00 2020
    On 05-02-20 10:43, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    It doesn't matter, I joined your board yesterday. I'm not going to bug him.

    No probs, that works. :)

    These days, I'm more likely to use Winlink, which can use radio to send email. I have sent email from the outback using HF radio, with a
    600-700km path to the mail gateway

    Sounds like winlink would require windows or at least a windows VM to
    make work. I think it's sick that you managed to send/receive email
    using radio from such a distance. That is soooo awesome.

    There are various programs nowadays. The original Winlink was a Windows program, as you suspected, but I do believe there are alternatives, but the non Windows ones, AFAIK require expensive Pactor modems to work on HF. Some of the Windows software includes Winmor, which is a software TNC that implements an alternative HF compatible modem. Not as fast as Pactor4, but quite good. Antually, my packet gateway can support WinLink, and it runs on a Pi, but to use Winmor, it needs to be able to make a TCP connection to a Windows PC running the modem.

    Since I posted this I've seen a winlink demo on computerphile's youtube channel. The demo showed the fetching of a basic html page and a few
    other features. There were timeouts, as you said, with tcp. It would be interesting to pursue this

    Sure it wasn't IP packet? Winlink AFAIK is for email, unless there's been protocol extensions. It doesn't run IP or anything Internet compatible. The Winlink messages are converted to email within the Winlink infrastructure.

    But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
    said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
    local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
    become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
    do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.

    I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
    habit to log into your board more often.

    Yeah, cool. I'm rehashing old ground (for me) a bit, but with new software and hardware (on a R-Pi), and I'm actually running the gateway this time, instead of being an RF only node.


    ... Math problems? Call 1-800-10*(24+13)-(64-16)/2^14E2.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sun May 3 15:39:00 2020
    On 05-02-20 11:10, calcmandan wrote to Avon <=-

    Yeah I've been listening to the ARRL weekly podcast now a few months.
    One of my best friends has been a HAM for thirty some odd years now and he's so hardcore about it that he refuses to do anything but morse. I'm like pffff.

    I'm more into the modern stuff. Sure, I loke a good chat on the local repeater, but data modes are interesting, as is slow scan TV. And there's a lot happening in the digital voice space, from networked VHF/UHF systems that's become a bit of a Tower of Babel, with several incompatible systems - D-STAR, DMR, P25, NXDN, Fusion at least; through to state of the art low bitrate weak signal digital voice intended to replace SSB on HF frequencies. FreeDV is the software for this branch of DV, and it's pretty impressive, now offering weak signal performance capable of exceeding SSB (i.e. FreeDV is copyable with a weaker signal than SSB!).

    As for Morse, it has its place, but I'm not in the right headspace these days (too distracted) to get up to the speeds required for it to be useful, and using a computer - well in that case, might as well use PSK-31, JT65 or JS8Call, which are designed for typing text over the air using computers (and some of these can handle weaker signals too). That's because the real benefit of Morse in my book is (technological) simplicity - if you can turn something on and off, you can use it for Morse, and using a computer kinda defeats that purpose. :)


    ... Footprints in the sands of time are never made by sitting down.
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Sun May 3 17:43:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Sure it wasn't IP packet? Winlink AFAIK is for email, unless there's
    been protocol extensions. It doesn't run IP or anything Internet compatible. The Winlink messages are converted to email within the Winlink infrastructure.

    I'm not sure at all.

    But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
    said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
    local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
    become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
    do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.

    I'll definitely keep up with it.

    I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
    habit to log into your board more often.

    Yeah, cool. I'm rehashing old ground (for me) a bit, but with new software and hardware (on a R-Pi), and I'm actually running the gateway this time, instead of being an RF only node.

    I have tons to learn.


    ... Daniel Traechin
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Mon May 4 11:02:14 2020
    And as I hinted at, the change has created an issue in that the
    VKnFxxx callsigns don't fit into the address headers of some
    protocols. Some examples I know of:

    When the foundation license was created they wouldn't have thought that
    access to digital (Packet) modes was something that they should use.

    It was meant to be just a entry level into the hobbie. What the acma
    should have done is something like when I got my call sign and use(d) a
    unused suffix.

    But then a VKnF was a clear way to show it was a foundation ham.

    Yeh, modern cars don't make it easy to mount extra gear. #0(

    Yeah, I'll probably have to cross that bridge in a few years when I
    update my car. :/ I might consider just getting the pros to do it
    next time.

    I've been thinking about going to the guys that did the setup in the old
    car (a ford courier ute), and see what they can do. I'd love to be back
    on the air again.

    and tell LinBPQ what addresses are on RF. Currently, I have 2 on
    test, though without a radio, all that ping does is flash the Tx
    LED on the TNC-Pi. :D

    At least it's not a midnight flasher #-)

    I was on a site the other day with a TNC for the pi, and they now have a 9600bps version. The pi has really made a huge inroads to hobbie setups.
    If only they would make a version with a second Nic, and a sata port.

    1. Get to me on 2m - highly unlikely; or
    2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh tunneling.
    Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses over the
    tunnels.

    I've been on the 44-ip mailing list for many yearsb %-)




    \/orlon



    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Mon May 4 21:43:00 2020
    On 05-03-20 17:43, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Sure it wasn't IP packet? Winlink AFAIK is for email, unless there's
    been protocol extensions. It doesn't run IP or anything Internet compatible. The Winlink messages are converted to email within the Winlink infrastructure.

    I'm not sure at all.

    Fair enough.

    I'll definitely keep up with it.

    Yeah, lots to read. ;)

    I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
    habit to log into your board more often.

    Cool. Sorry I was down last night. I was restarting the BBS, but it hung on shutdown (first time I can recall since last year's SBBS upgrade). Fixed that this morning.

    Yeah, cool. I'm rehashing old ground (for me) a bit, but with new software and hardware (on a R-Pi), and I'm actually running the gateway this time, instead of being an RF only node.

    I have tons to learn.

    Me too, gotta find out where to get a listing of endpoints for the AXIP wormholes, so AX.25 packet users can access them.


    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Mon May 4 21:53:00 2020
    On 05-04-20 11:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    When the foundation license was created they wouldn't have thought that access to digital (Packet) modes was something that they should use.

    True, but that was short sighted. I could see digital becoming a thing for foundation calls, because the world is going digital. It took 15 years in the end.

    It was meant to be just a entry level into the hobbie. What the acma should have done is something like when I got my call sign and use(d) a unused suffix.

    Problem is where's not a lot left. And that's the problem ACMA is trying to resolve now.

    But then a VKnF was a clear way to show it was a foundation ham.

    True, but it breaks a lot of things.

    I've been thinking about going to the guys that did the setup in the
    old car (a ford courier ute), and see what they can do. I'd love to be back on the air again.

    Might save a lot of pain. :)

    and tell LinBPQ what addresses are on RF. Currently, I have 2 on
    test, though without a radio, all that ping does is flash the Tx
    LED on the TNC-Pi. :D

    At least it's not a midnight flasher #-)

    *point and giggles* :P

    I was on a site the other day with a TNC for the pi, and they now have
    a 9600bps version. The pi has really made a huge inroads to hobbie
    setups. If only they would make a version with a second Nic, and a sata port.

    The Pi has been an awesome platform for hobbyist setups.

    1. Get to me on 2m - highly unlikely; or
    2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh tunneling.
    Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses over the
    tunnels.

    I've been on the 44-ip mailing list for many yearsb %-)

    Do you have 44.x IPs?


    ... Synonym: A word you use when you can't spell the other.
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    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Tue May 5 15:02:38 2020
    2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh
    tunneling. Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses
    over the tunnels.

    I've been on the 44-ip mailing list for many yearsb %-)

    Do you have 44.x IPs?

    No not at this time. I was planning on doing things, but then the sh*t
    hit the fan with the X and a lot of life changes have gone through since.




    \/orlon
    VK3HEG


    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Tue May 5 18:49:00 2020
    On 05-05-20 15:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Do you have 44.x IPs?

    No not at this time. I was planning on doing things, but then the sh*t
    hit the fan with the X and a lot of life changes have gone through
    since.

    Ahh, OK. well you could at least get the IPs up and we can try communicating with each other. :)


    ... Every revolutionary ends up either by becoming an oppressor or a heretic. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Vk3jed on Wed May 6 10:36:58 2020
    On 05-05-20 15:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Do you have 44.x IPs?

    No not at this time. I was planning on doing things, but then
    the sh*t hit the fan with the X and a lot of life changes have
    gone through since.

    Ahh, OK. well you could at least get the IPs up and we can try communicating with each other. :)

    As the old saying goes "Whatch this space"! &-=)




    \/orlon
    VK3HEG


    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to vorlon on Wed May 6 16:53:00 2020
    On 05-06-20 10:36, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Ahh, OK. well you could at least get the IPs up and we can try communicating with each other. :)

    As the old saying goes "Whatch this space"! &-=)

    Cool. Might have to setup a Jabber server or something. ;)


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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Thu May 7 20:32:30 2020
    On 02 May 2020 at 03:30p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D

    Shall we work on something for this echo. I see merit in that, You?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Thu May 7 20:12:00 2020
    On 05-07-20 20:32, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 02 May 2020 at 03:30p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D

    Shall we work on something for this echo. I see merit in that, You?

    Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how to do it. :)


    ... If Pro is the opposite of Con then what is the opposite of Progress?
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Thu May 7 22:49:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to Avon <=-

    On 05-07-20 20:32, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 02 May 2020 at 03:30p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D

    Shall we work on something for this echo. I see merit in that, You?

    Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
    to do it. :)

    Going by this conversation, you're looking for a way to connect packet
    radio so that one could read and respond to echoes?

    ... If Pro is the opposite of Con then what is the opposite of
    Progress?

    I love this quote.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Fri May 8 19:56:00 2020
    On 05-07-20 22:49, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
    to do it. :)

    Going by this conversation, you're looking for a way to connect packet radio so that one could read and respond to echoes?

    No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software, but my last attempt at searching found nothing.

    No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.

    ... If Pro is the opposite of Con then what is the opposite of
    Progress?

    I love this quote.

    :-)


    ... Which way did they go!? I'm they're leader!!
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    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to Vk3jed on Sat May 9 07:58:00 2020
    Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-

    On 05-07-20 22:49, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
    to do it. :)

    Going by this conversation, you're looking for a way to connect packet radio so that one could read and respond to echoes?

    No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
    but my last attempt at searching found nothing.

    No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.

    So interesting. I will be asking for a radio when xmas comes around. In the meantime I'll be getting my license.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to calcmandan on Sat May 9 18:08:00 2020
    On 05-09-20 07:58, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.

    So interesting. I will be asking for a radio when xmas comes around. In the meantime I'll be getting my license.

    Cool, keep us posted. :)


    ... You don't have to be ashamed of using your own ideas
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  • From Al@21:4/106 to Vk3jed on Fri May 8 13:28:32 2020
    Hello Vk3jed,

    No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
    but my last attempt at searching found nothing.

    No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.

    I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Sun May 10 12:46:00 2020
    On 05-08-20 13:28, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Hello Vk3jed,

    No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
    but my last attempt at searching found nothing.

    No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.

    I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
    anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
    it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.


    ... Abdicate (v.) to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Mon May 11 15:03:14 2020
    On 10 May 2020 at 12:46p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole an it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.

    sounds good to me - thanks guys :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Al@21:4/106.1 to Vk3jed on Sun May 10 21:17:34 2020
    I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
    anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
    it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.

    I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS version. There are no other versions that I know of.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Mon May 11 21:13:00 2020
    On 05-11-20 15:03, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 10 May 2020 at 12:46p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole an it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.

    sounds good to me - thanks guys :)

    Only "Black Hole" I've found was a netmail processor and seemed a bit like NetMgr, which I used years ago to manioukate netmail. The documentation I read suggested Black Hole works on netmail, not echomail, as far as I could tell. Anyone else here have leads on gating echomail between FTNs?


    ... Them ain't oil leaks on that Harley. It's automatic rust prevention!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Mon May 11 21:15:00 2020
    On 05-10-20 21:17, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
    anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
    it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.

    Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.

    I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS version. There are no other versions that I know of.

    I'm sure I'd be able to get a DOS version running. But finding it is the tricky part. Any leads there?


    ... The tuna doesn't taste the same without the dolphin.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Al@21:4/106.1 to Vk3jed on Mon May 11 11:58:42 2020
    I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS
    version. There are no other versions that I know of.

    I'm sure I'd be able to get a DOS version running. But finding it is the tricky part. Any leads there?

    I did keep these files around at one time but I don't see anything like that now. The archives were called BH*.ZIP, I'll see what I can dig up..

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Tue May 12 19:26:32 2020
    On 11 May 2020 at 09:13p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Only "Black Hole" I've found was a netmail processor and seemed a bit
    like NetMgr, which I used years ago to manioukate netmail. The documentation I read suggested Black Hole works on netmail, not
    echomail, as far as I could tell. Anyone else here have leads on gating echomail between FTNs?

    Let's think this through. We would share and echo tag I guess? We would
    ideally need to avoid using the same NET/NODE combos also else risk false positives between Zones?

    But if there is a legacy gateway tool that would handle such things then that could work too.

    I'll need some time to look into that.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/20 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Tue May 12 21:36:00 2020
    On 05-11-20 11:58, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS
    version. There are no other versions that I know of.

    I'm sure I'd be able to get a DOS version running. But finding it is the tricky part. Any leads there?

    I did keep these files around at one time but I don't see anything like that now. The archives were called BH*.ZIP, I'll see what I can dig
    up..

    Thanks, yeah I didn't have any luck when I tried. :/


    ... Seriousness is the very next step to being dull.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Avon on Tue May 12 21:38:00 2020
    On 05-12-20 19:26, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Let's think this through. We would share and echo tag I guess? We would ideally need to avoid using the same NET/NODE combos also else risk
    false positives between Zones?

    But if there is a legacy gateway tool that would handle such things
    then that could work too.

    Hmm, we will have different zones, but a high risk of net/node clashes. :(

    I'll need some time to look into that.

    I think using a tool is what's needed. Of course, we can also route netmail for each other's nets, since that's just inter-zone routing.


    ... Marriage: the price men pay for sex. Sex: the price women pay for marriag === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to Vk3jed on Tue May 12 11:03:56 2020
    Hello Vk3jed,

    Thanks, yeah I didn't have any luck when I tried. :/

    Your luck has changed.. :)

    I posted a search in FILEFIND and I got this reply from mark lewis.

    i do remember the archive was named BHxxxxxx where the x's were
    numbers...

    Yes, that's it. I'm hoping it'll turn up in a search of one of these archives. I am asking on Tony Langdon's behalf. He wants to do this
    (he's
    thinking about it anyway) in one of his nets. If you happen to have a
    copy
    there that would be great.. :)

    ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/FIDO-GEN/bh101b07.arj

    bh101b07.arj 75k Dec 31, 1991 00:55 =============================================
    BlackHole is an inter-domain EchoMail gating
    utility for FidoNet(R) technology based
    networks (FTN's). It will NOT gate between
    different zones in the same domain, nor
    between FidoNet(R) systems and/or other
    technologies such as UUCP.

    That's the DOS version, so I hope it'll work for you.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Al on Wed May 13 09:39:00 2020
    On 05-12-20 11:03, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Hello Vk3jed,

    Thanks, yeah I didn't have any luck when I tried. :/

    Your luck has changed.. :)

    I posted a search in FILEFIND and I got this reply from mark lewis.

    ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/FIDO-GEN/bh101b07.arj

    bh101b07.arj 75k Dec 31, 1991 00:55 =============================================
    BlackHole is an inter-domain EchoMail gating
    utility for FidoNet(R) technology based
    networks (FTN's). It will NOT gate between
    different zones in the same domain, nor
    between FidoNet(R) systems and/or other
    technologies such as UUCP.

    That's the DOS version, so I hope it'll work for you.. :)

    I think I can make it work. Just have to see if I can script a DOSBox session, or even setup a gateway system under DOS in DOSBox. :) Anyway, this is exactly what we'd be looking for. :)


    ... The cost of feathers has risen...now even DOWN is up!
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  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Wolfstag on Tue Jun 16 12:44:26 2020
    On 23 Apr 2020, Wolfstag said the following...

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
    it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
    on ocassion would be awesome.


    Hey Wolfstag,
    I'd love to get this conversation going. I have quite a bit of experience with packet.

    My goal with my BBS system is to offer 1200bps VHF, 9600 UHF and HF packet interfaces to the BBS. The packet to BBS interface isn't the complicated
    thing for me, what's holding me back is the tower for the VHF/UHF antennas,
    and the General license to transmit on HF (other than 10 meter privileges as
    a Tech)

    I'd like to identify some type of project app that we can link up here on fsxnet that would allow us to map out, together, a project management type system to draft the system requirements, and various hardware tnc's, software tnc's, raspberry pi's and such to kick this project off.

    I could have an operational prototype up on HF (10 meters) as a test system
    in a matter of weeks, obviously 40 meters would be a much better band for
    this, however that would require me to study :)

    This topic really excites me, and I have transceivers, hardware tncs, etc.
    The only thing is I would like to use a raspberry pi with perhaps a TNC-X.

    There is another gentleman that joined my BBS locally that also has a passion for getting this setup as well that will be interested to get this off the ground.

    73

    -Dejavu

    Lee
    KN4TGK

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/02 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Dragonstalon BBS (21:2/164)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Tue Jun 16 12:52:58 2020
    On 24 Apr 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 04-23-20 05:40, Wolfstag wrote to All <=-

    I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna giv it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bothe on ocassion would be awesome.

    On my todo list. I have a gateway setup, except it needs a radio. :)


    Hey Vk3jed!

    I should probably work my way backwards on these messages :) What gateway
    are you using Vk3jed? On your gateway are you basically typing "bbs" to forward to the BBS?

    My vision is to create a "Packet Radio" theme in mystic that is ASCII only,
    all graphics are removed, login at bbs is just "username and password" and
    the menu prompts are "quick menu". User would have to manually request to
    see the full menu over packet manually.

    Also it would be interesting to allow the user to enable and disable which command prompts he/she would like to see in the future.

    I'm excited to see 3 Amatuers already since pulling down the additional mail, this is really exciting, my fsxNet Ham Radio mailbox has been empty since I joined :)

    73

    -Dejavu


    ... 10.0 times 0.10 is hardly ever 1.00.
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  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to alterego on Tue Jun 16 12:58:38 2020
    On 28 Apr 2020, alterego said the following...

    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: marlow to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 2020 06:57 pm

    On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet R

    I would love to learn how to do this - I think it would be cool.

    I'm a long way from being able to do it (and wouldnt know where to
    start), but all the same, curious to know what's involved.

    It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
    ...δεσπ


    Hey alterego!
    I'm very knowledgeable in this area. Imagine us seting up hub traffic over
    the HF links, now that would be awesome and is extremely easy. Believe it
    or not it's no different than what we are doing with IP, Packet Radio uses
    X.25 instead of IP, and it's natively suported by linux.

    Also there are TNC's that do pure IP protocol, so that is something else to look into, we can simply use HF radio to talk IPv4.

    Let's get a thread started discussing all the linux based TNC's everyone is aware of, such as the TNC-X, and then let's discuss the initial use cases and requirements. I'd love to build this and utilize it for my Netmail and
    fsxNet mail synchronization :)

    73

    -Dejavu



    ... He used to be fairly indecisive, but now he's not so certain.
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to vorlon on Tue Jun 16 13:05:08 2020
    On 29 Apr 2020, vorlon said the following...

    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am



    (Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)

    Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?

    But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio

    To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is required.

    The basic setup is:

    Radio (2m or 70cm) and Antenna
    TNC (1200bps or 9600bps, with 99% being 1200bps) [Think of the TNC as the modem]
    Computer running terminal software or bbs software with the AX25 stack loaded.


    Hey vorion,
    Exactly. 2m VHF 1200bps, and 70cm UHF at 9600bps, which 9600 is pretty darn fast for text only traffic!

    Now add HF for the fsxNet mail transfer and Netmail and the BBS and mail functionality will still work when the grid is down :)

    I already saw two people completely capable of doing this, what's really holding this back? I'm ready to jump in and make it happen!

    73

    -Dejavu


    In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.





    \/orlon



    --- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Tue Jun 16 13:21:02 2020
    On 29 Apr 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.

    Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
    comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
    be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.


    APRS is widely used in the US, however Packet is still widely used. What's happened with Packet is that all the original hams are gone and the packet infrastructure that was running on Kantronics TNC's, for example, have also failed. The talent that use to maintain them is also gone so there is no
    one to pick up the slack.

    If we all did our part to put up packet nodes on the existing VHF/UHF frequencies we could keep it alive and well and leverage all the existing packet nodes that haven't dismantled, as well as offer a whole new breed of messaging capabilities via BBS that never existed previously.

    73

    -Dejavu

    Vk> Vk> ... Cats don't criticize your friends Vk> === MultiMail/Win
    v0.51 Vk> --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Tue Jun 16 13:24:28 2020
    On 29 Apr 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.

    Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
    comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
    be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.


    Hey Vk3jed,

    What TNC hardware are you using that supports IPv4?
    I've used commercial hardware such as the P4 Dragon for IPv4 comms, however
    I'm looking for some open source solutions, I know there are some, however
    I've forgotten which ones they were.

    I know the TNC-X is a very good open source product that has the ability to stack RS-232 interfaces on top, so you can have one device with UHF, VHF and
    HF all in one.

    I'm curious to know what else is out there now, TNC-X is a few years old now.

    73

    -Dejavu


    ... Cats don't criticize your friends
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From alterego@21:2/116 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 08:48:24 2020
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: dejavu to alterego on Tue Jun 16 2020 12:58 pm

    I'm very knowledgeable in this area. Imagine us seting up hub traffic over the HF links, now that would be awesome and is extremely easy. Believe it or not it's no different than what we are doing with IP, Packet Radio uses X.25 instead of IP, and it's natively suported by linux.

    Cool.

    Actually one of the first things I need to do is get licensed - but I dont have spare time to go through it all... I will get there eventually, but other priorities are in the way.

    That said, I look forward to learning how its done. I did start playing with AX25 on linux, to see if I could get some packet stuff going over IP - that might be start?

    Perhaps if I could get a radio link going between the front of the house and back (to get my skills up).

    Ahh so many ideas but time is the enemy.. :(

    ...δεσ∩

    ... Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 15:06:00 2020
    On 06-16-20 12:52, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I should probably work my way backwards on these messages :) What gateway are you using Vk3jed? On your gateway are you basically
    typing "bbs" to forward to the BBS?

    I have LinBPQ setup for packet services, and another system links it to the 44.x IPIP mesh.

    My vision is to create a "Packet Radio" theme in mystic that is ASCII only, all graphics are removed, login at bbs is just "username and password" and the menu prompts are "quick menu". User would have to manually request to see the full menu over packet manually.

    Cool, sounds much like what a packet BBS has. Will be interesting to see how Mystic goes at it.

    Also it would be interesting to allow the user to enable and disable
    which command prompts he/she would like to see in the future.

    I'm excited to see 3 Amatuers already since pulling down the additional mail, this is really exciting, my fsxNet Ham Radio mailbox has been
    empty since I joined :)

    Cool. Well, here in FSX_HAM, this can be discussed across 2 networks! It is linked to VK_HAMNET on VKRadio. :)


    ... The best way to make a long story short is to stop listening.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 15:12:00 2020
    On 06-16-20 13:21, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    APRS is widely used in the US, however Packet is still widely used.
    What's happened with Packet is that all the original hams are gone and
    the packet infrastructure that was running on Kantronics TNC's, for example, have also failed. The talent that use to maintain them is
    also gone so there is no one to pick up the slack.

    Yeah a lot have gone. I've gone back to my roots with the BPQ route, except that I'm now running LinBPQ on a R-Pi, instead of BPQ.EXE with KA9Q NOS on a DOS PC. :)

    If we all did our part to put up packet nodes on the existing VHF/UHF frequencies we could keep it alive and well and leverage all the
    existing packet nodes that haven't dismantled, as well as offer a whole new breed of messaging capabilities via BBS that never existed
    previously.

    I will have to pull my finger out and get a radio hooked up. I have a spare 2m port on a VHF/UHF diplexer, which can be used for packet. I'll probably have to setup a dedicated BBS that's ham only, though I would network it to this one (with security restrictions), to make it easier for me to access mail. I'll probably need a conventional FBB style packet BBS so I can access packet bulletins. I haven't seen software to gate them to FTN - searches have turned up empty handed. :/ I know there used to be packet - FTN gateways back in the 90s and there have been BBSs on FSXnet that have gated bulletins, but never found out how they were doing it.


    ... I had a monumental idea this morning, but I didn't like it.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 15:16:00 2020
    On 06-16-20 13:24, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    What TNC hardware are you using that supports IPv4?

    Any TNC that supports KISS will do the job. :)

    I know the TNC-X is a very good open source product that has the
    ability to stack RS-232 interfaces on top, so you can have one device
    with UHF, VHF and HF all in one.

    TNC-X supports KISS (that's all it supports!), so it will work. All of the IP networking software supports KISS TNCs, though that's not the only option. There's also software TNCs and various hardware cards that have come and gone.

    I'm curious to know what else is out there now, TNC-X is a few years
    old now.

    The original TNC-X site is no more, but MFJ now builds and sells the design.

    My own setup uses a TNC-Pi, which is basically a TNC-X style board that fits on the Pi as a shield.


    ... Advertising is legalized lying.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 15:37:00 2020
    On 06-16-20 13:05, dejavu wrote to vorlon <=-

    Hey vorion,
    Exactly. 2m VHF 1200bps, and 70cm UHF at 9600bps, which 9600 is pretty darn fast for text only traffic!

    Now add HF for the fsxNet mail transfer and Netmail and the BBS and
    mail functionality will still work when the grid is down :)

    I'm not sure HF is the way to go, traditional HF packet is only 300 bps. However, modern DSP technology could come up with better modem designs. The Internet is a much more reliable long haul backbone - vastly faster and not subject to highly variable propagation.

    I already saw two people completely capable of doing this, what's
    really holding this back? I'm ready to jump in and make it happen!

    Looks like I have to pull my finger out. ;)


    ... Man invented language to satisfy his need to complain.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to alterego on Wed Jun 17 15:45:00 2020
    On 06-17-20 08:48, alterego wrote to dejavu <=-

    That said, I look forward to learning how its done. I did start playing with AX25 on linux, to see if I could get some packet stuff going over
    IP - that might be start?

    Well, AX.25 is the link layer protocol used on packet radio. In the overall scheme of things, it's roughly analogous to Ethernet on the LAN or PPP on dialup. AX.25 does have some rudimentary network layer facilities, namely digipeater routing.

    But in a real network scenario, one would (and I did 30 years ago) run IP over AX.25 UI frames. You can even include a digipeater in the path, if needed, though where possible, it's best not to have a digipeater at the AX.25 layer and let IP do the routing.

    Perhaps if I could get a radio link going between the front of the
    house and back (to get my skills up).

    I'm thinking of doing the same here. I have to hook up a radio to the packet system, which means making up a db9 to 6 pin adapter, then buying a Signalink cable for the Yaesu. Doing it this way means I only need the one oddball cable, regardless of what radio I use. I use the 6 pin mini DIN (1200 bps) connections as my standard packet connector format. I hate working on those mini DIN connectors too, might consider cheating there as well.

    Ahh so many ideas but time is the enemy.. :(

    Tell me about it!


    ... Of course I'm sane... The voices said so...
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Wed Jun 17 08:12:08 2020
    On 17 Jun 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 06-16-20 12:52, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I should probably work my way backwards on these messages :) What gateway are you using Vk3jed? On your gateway are you basically typing "bbs" to forward to the BBS?

    I have LinBPQ setup for packet services, and another system links it to the 44.x IPIP mesh.


    Cool. I've experimented with BPQ, not sure if it's the same as LinBPQ and it worked for me, however I don't recall why I stopped using it. I'm going to circle back to it this week and check it out again and try to remember what
    the trouble was that I encountered.

    I've seen the 44.x address space, however I have no experience with it.
    Can you explain the purpose of the 44.x address space at a high level and
    share a use case or two for it?

    In my experience with "Packet", "Pactor modes" or "APRS" I haven't seen an actual use case for the 44.x address space.

    My vision is to create a "Packet Radio" theme in mystic that is ASCII only, all graphics are removed, login at bbs is just "username and Vk>

    password" and the menu prompts are "quick menu". User would have to Vk>
    manually request to see the full menu over packet manually. Vk>
    Cool, sounds much like what a packet BBS has. Will be interesting to
    see how Mystic goes at it.

    Also it would be interesting to allow the user to enable and disable which command prompts he/she would like to see in the future.

    I'm excited to see 3 Amatuers already since pulling down the addition mail, this is really exciting, my fsxNet Ham Radio mailbox has been empty since I joined :)

    Cool. Well, here in FSX_HAM, this can be discussed across 2 networks!
    It is linked to VK_HAMNET on VKRadio. :)


    Cool!


    ... The best way to make a long story short is to stop listening.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

    -Dejavu

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Wed Jun 17 08:36:36 2020
    On 17 Jun 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 06-16-20 13:24, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    What TNC hardware are you using that supports IPv4?

    Any TNC that supports KISS will do the job. :)

    I know the TNC-X is a very good open source product that has the ability to stack RS-232 interfaces on top, so you can have one device with UHF, VHF and HF all in one.

    TNC-X supports KISS (that's all it supports!), so it will work. All of the IP networking software supports KISS TNCs, though that's not the
    only option. There's also software TNCs and various hardware cards that have come and gone.

    I'm curious to know what else is out there now, TNC-X is a few years old now.

    The original TNC-X site is no more, but MFJ now builds and sells the design.

    My own setup uses a TNC-Pi, which is basically a TNC-X style board that fits on the Pi as a shield.



    I believe where I had left off last on building a packet interface was to use the TNC-Pi, however I never ordered one. If I can remember back in memory
    that far I believe it was because they were on the brink of releasing a 9600 version at that time and I was holding out. Does that sound about right for the TNC-Pi?

    I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I find them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I've tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.

    If someone handed you a couple Kantronics KAM-XL and SCS Pactor III units
    and a TNC-PI, which unit would you prefer to use for BPQ for a packet
    interface into Mystic, and if possible, some use cases for the TNC-PI over a traditional hardware TNC?

    The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III units.
    I see one justification with the TNC-PI is that it has, at least from memory
    a 9600 baud interface. That would be one advantage that I can see for 9600
    UHF user connections.

    Nothing else is coming to mind, other than open source... However I'm
    extremely rusty on the topic and I don't own a TNC-PI, at least I don't
    believe I have one, LOL :)

    Vk> ... Advertising is legalized
    lying. Vk> === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

    -Dejavu

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From calcmandan@21:1/137 to dejavu on Wed Jun 17 22:36:00 2020
    dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    On 29 Apr 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-

    I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.

    Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
    comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
    be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.


    APRS is widely used in the US, however Packet is still widely used.
    What's happened with Packet is that all the original hams are gone and
    the packet infrastructure that was running on Kantronics TNC's, for example, have also failed. The talent that use to maintain them is
    also gone so there is no one to pick up the slack.

    If we all did our part to put up packet nodes on the existing VHF/UHF frequencies we could keep it alive and well and leverage all the
    existing packet nodes that haven't dismantled, as well as offer a whole new breed of messaging capabilities via BBS that never existed
    previously.

    I am very interested in this. Soon I will be studying for my HAM license in the US and will have a strong interest in setting up packet radio and a BBS.

    I have some major time constraints to work around.

    Daniel Traechin
    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Fri Jun 19 12:07:00 2020
    On 06-17-20 08:12, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Cool. I've experimented with BPQ, not sure if it's the same as LinBPQ
    and it worked for me, however I don't recall why I stopped using it.
    I'm going to circle back to it this week and check it out again and try
    to remember what the trouble was that I encountered.

    LinBPQ and BPQ32 (the WIndows version) are descendents of BPQ. They are compatible and offer the same services, though LinBPQ and BPQ32 can do more, because of the better features of their host OS (Linux/Windows), compared to DOS.

    I've seen the 44.x address space, however I have no experience with it. Can you explain the purpose of the 44.x address space at a high level
    and share a use case or two for it?

    It's a block of addresses set aside for ham radio use. The use cases have changed slightly since it first came about. Initially, it was a place where ham stations could experiment with IP, using software such as KA9Q NOS, which was quite an advanced package that ran on top of DOS. KA9Q could also run on top of BPQ (which ran as a TSR on DOS), which is how my old setup worked, back in 1991.

    The 44.x address space could be used as a "virtual network" running on top of the Internet and sites could be linked using tunnels or other technologies, which is done to this day.

    Today, 44.x address space has more used. In addition to providing IP connectivity to packet stations, the address space also facilitates:

    IP connectivity for ham mesh and other high speed networks. These networks look more like wifi than traditional packet radio, and IP is a natural fit. These networks can also support IPv6, if desired.

    Internet services for amateurs. With the IPv4 shortage around the world, getting a large number of IP addresses can be difficult. But for us hams, no problem. If we can find a provider that will route a /24 (or larger) via BGP, we can get a block of addresses allocated and have our provider route them to where we want. For example, I have a VPS that runs an IRLP reflector, D-STAR reflector and a bunch of public Echolink proxies (like around 150). I have a /24 routed to it via BGP, and this was done for 2 reasons:

    1. I could only get a /28 using normal IP space, and I have to justofy that (easy, since I was using them all and starting to run short at the time).

    2. As my provider switched uplinks, I had to renumber every few years, which is a tedious and error prone process, complicated by needing coordination between the admins of some of the services I carry (especially IRLP and D-STAR). Now using address space allocated to me, rather than my provider minimises the risk of this happening. And for ham services, the price is right. :)

    In my experience with "Packet", "Pactor modes" or "APRS" I haven't seen
    an actual use case for the 44.x address space.

    Packet can use it, but doesn't need it. The other modes you presented it, don't use IP (other than APRS-IS, which is the Internet service that carries APRS data).

    Cool. Well, here in FSX_HAM, this can be discussed across 2 networks!
    It is linked to VK_HAMNET on VKRadio. :)


    Cool!

    Yeah, it is. I have to move the gateway to a DOS based system running in a VM, but it is working. :)



    ... X-Files? No... They're downstairs. We're the Y-Files.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Fri Jun 19 12:12:00 2020
    On 06-17-20 08:36, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I believe where I had left off last on building a packet interface was
    to use the TNC-Pi, however I never ordered one. If I can remember back
    in memory that far I believe it was because they were on the brink of releasing a 9600 version at that time and I was holding out. Does
    that sound about right for the TNC-Pi?

    I think there was, but the TNC-Pi is no more now. :( I'm glad I got one while I could. :)

    I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I find them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using
    software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I've tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.

    I could never affoed the Kantronics TNCs, but they were the bees knees.

    If someone handed you a couple Kantronics KAM-XL and SCS Pactor III
    units and a TNC-PI, which unit would you prefer to use for BPQ for a packet interface into Mystic, and if possible, some use cases for the TNC-PI over a traditional hardware TNC?

    Hmm, a mixed bag there. The Pactor unit would be a no brainer for Winlink. The TNC-Pi, if you wanted to save space, and the Kantronics for reliability and performance, though it's probably overkill. :) And another option is a software TNC like Direwolf, which is said to offer excellent (possibly better than hardware) performance.

    The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III units.
    I see one justification with the TNC-PI is that it has, at least from memory a 9600 baud interface. That would be one advantage that I can
    see for 9600 UHF user connections.

    I don't know if 9600 ever eventuated.

    Nothing else is coming to mind, other than open source... However I'm extremely rusty on the topic and I don't own a TNC-PI, at least I don't believe I have one, LOL :)

    I do, just have to hook it up to the radio sitting next to it!. :D Got so many projects happening now. Just got AllStar working, and now it can connect to my existing tlb based system. I added SvxLink for voting and SDR inputs last week. :)


    ... The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From dejavu@21:3/114 to Vk3jed on Fri Jun 19 12:25:38 2020
    On 19 Jun 2020, Vk3jed said the following...

    On 06-17-20 08:36, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I believe where I had left off last on building a packet interface wa to use the TNC-Pi, however I never ordered one. If I can remember ba in memory that far I believe it was because they were on the brink of releasing a 9600 version at that time and I was holding out. Does that sound about right for the TNC-Pi?

    I think there was, but the TNC-Pi is no more now. :( I'm glad I got one while I could. :)


    I'll keep my eyes open on the used market for a TNC-Pi, just to see what I missed out on...

    I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I fin
    them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using Vk>
    software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I'v Vk> tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.

    I could never affoed the Kantronics TNCs, but they were the bees knees.

    I bought them recently on the used market, so prices are what you would pay
    for a TNC-Pi, as an example, however yes back in the day they were very expensive.


    If someone handed you a couple Kantronics KAM-XL and SCS Pactor III units and a TNC-PI, which unit would you prefer to use for BPQ for a packet interface into Mystic, and if possible, some use cases for the TNC-PI over a traditional hardware TNC?

    Hmm, a mixed bag there. The Pactor unit would be a no brainer for Winlink. The TNC-Pi, if you wanted to save space, and the Kantronics for reliability and performance, though it's probably overkill. :) And another option is a software TNC like Direwolf, which is said to offer excellent (possibly better than hardware) performance.


    This is where things get a bit cloudy. I have all of these devices, I use
    the SCS for Pactor III on Winlink, however I'm band limited to 10 meters,
    since I haven't had the time to study to upgrade to General. I keep failing the General practice exams, and it's a struggle between other studying,
    family life, attempting to setup a BBS, and at least 100 other projects. You know how it is. The studying for the General just isn't on my top priority list right now and I'm starting to see it's more of a thing when I retire
    I'll be able to get to it, or at least I keep telling myself that.

    When we talk about implementing packet integration into Mystic for example
    I'm looking to use the best tool for the job. I prefer hardware devices
    such as Kantronics, AEA, SCS, and most likely would like the TNC-X and the PI-TNC over the name brand vintage TNC's for the ability of customization,
    one thing I know is the built in "JunOS" type BBS on the Kantronic's doesn't allow any customization, at least not without customizing the ROM.

    I'm going to research and purchase the additional addons to setup the PI TNC and experiment with it, something tells me I already went down this path and probably have it toss in a drawer or box somewhere. Way too many projects
    and not enough time.

    The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III unit I see one justification with the TNC-PI is that it has, at least from memory a
    9600 baud interface. That would be one advantage that I can Vk> de> see for 9600 UHF user connections. Vk>
    I don't know if 9600 ever eventuated.

    Kenwood's TNC support 9600 baud natively, and there were 9600 baud UHF packet stations on Packet systems in the Virginia/Washington DC/Maryland area a
    couple years back used for user access. I don't know the current status, however I do want to get one on the air, I believe not having a tower is what I've let this hold me back. I might just climb up in a tree and screw a j-pole in as high as I can get :) That is the amateur way :)

    Vk> de> Nothing else is coming to mind, other than open source...
    However I'm Vk> de> extremely rusty on the topic and I don't own a TNC-PI, at least I don Vk> de> believe I have one, LOL :)

    I do, just have to hook it up to the radio sitting next to it!. :D Got
    so many projects happening now. Just got AllStar working, and now it
    can connect to my existing tlb based system. I added SvxLink for voting and SDR inputs last week. :)


    I had Allstar at one point with the external parallel interface I believe it was, that project is benched and in a box somewhere for sure. I replaced it with D-Star, P25, Fusion, everything except DMR. SvxLink is ringing a bell, I believe that was the linux port of Echolink?


    ... The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

    -Dejavu

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: 1984 BBS [1984bbs.net:23] Washington, DC (21:3/114)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to dejavu on Sat Jun 20 16:41:00 2020
    On 06-19-20 12:25, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'll keep my eyes open on the used market for a TNC-Pi, just to see
    what I missed out on...

    I haven't looked at the secondhand market, hope you find a TNC-PI going for a good price.

    I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I fin them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using Vk>
    software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I'v Vk> tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.

    I could never affoed the Kantronics TNCs, but they were the bees knees.

    I bought them recently on the used market, so prices are what you would pay for a TNC-Pi, as an example, however yes back in the day they were very expensive.

    Might be worth shopping around for some Kantronics TNCs now.

    This is where things get a bit cloudy. I have all of these devices, I
    use the SCS for Pactor III on Winlink, however I'm band limited to 10

    Yeah, the Pactor modem for Winlink is a no brainer. And I'm band limited to 20 and 40m ATM, due to antenna limitations. But I play more on VHF/UHF anyway.

    meters, since I haven't had the time to study to upgrade to General. I keep failing the General practice exams, and it's a struggle between
    other studying, family life, attempting to setup a BBS, and at least
    100 other projects. You know how it is. The studying for the General just isn't on my top priority list right now and I'm starting to see
    it's more of a thing when I retire I'll be able to get to it, or at
    least I keep telling myself that.

    Yeah, you have to prioritise what's important, which usually means things like family, and other things have to take a back seat. Very understandable, especially in the current circumstances.

    When we talk about implementing packet integration into Mystic for
    example I'm looking to use the best tool for the job. I prefer
    hardware devices such as Kantronics, AEA, SCS, and most likely would
    like the TNC-X and the PI-TNC over the name brand vintage TNC's for the ability of customization, one thing I know is the built in "JunOS" type BBS on the Kantronic's doesn't allow any customization, at least not without customizing the ROM.

    I look for openness and choice. In other words, such work shouldn't be dependenent on a particular piece of hardware, so Mystic will need to be interfaced to the AX.25 layer (and optionally other protocols, such as IP - hang on, Mystic can already do that! ;) ). So all you need is a working AX.25 stack on your system, and what TNC is used is a matter of preference, whether it's a Kantronics, TNC-X or even a software TNC.

    I'm going to research and purchase the additional addons to setup the
    PI TNC and experiment with it, something tells me I already went down
    this path and probably have it toss in a drawer or box somewhere. Way
    too many projects and not enough time.

    I'd be interested how you go. :)

    The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III unit

    I think HF packet is pretty much dead and buried. The Internet has taken over long haul packet links (and does it well). And non packet protocols such as Winlink have filled in some of the gaps, even though working in a slightly different problem space.

    Kenwood's TNC support 9600 baud natively, and there were 9600 baud UHF packet stations on Packet systems in the Virginia/Washington
    DC/Maryland area a couple years back used for user access. I don't
    know the current status, however I do want to get one on the air, I believe not having a tower is what I've let this hold me back. I
    might just climb up in a tree and screw a j-pole in as high as I can
    get :) That is the amateur way :)

    Haha, wouldn't been the first time I've seen an antenna in a tree. Done that myself at times, even for "permanent" installations. Tree climbing could be considered an essential skill for an amateur. :D As for 9600, I stayed away from it for years, because it was a lot of money and effort for relatively little gain back in the early 1990s. I didn't have the money for either the TNCs, or the radios that were 9600 ready. And the other choice was to hack a radio, but many cheap surplus radios of the day weren't suitable, because they used phase modulation, rather than true FM.

    Today, 9600 is _much_ easier and cheaper, and chances are there's a couple of 9600 ready readios kicking around in everyone's shack. :)

    I had Allstar at one point with the external parallel interface I
    believe it was, that project is benched and in a box somewhere for
    sure. I replaced it with D-Star, P25, Fusion, everything except DMR.
    SvxLink is ringing a bell, I believe that was the linux port of Echolink?

    With DVSwitch, you can link AllStar to any of the DV modes, or gate from one DV mode to another. :)


    ... The Sun is at the center of the Universe. Copernicus
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to dejavu on Thu Jun 25 14:52:00 2020
    On 19 Jun 2020 at 12:25p, dejavu pondered and said...

    I'll keep my eyes open on the used market for a TNC-Pi, just to see what
    I missed out on...

    I bought a TNC-Pi kit and built it, but honestly, found that
    a software modem (direwolf, in my case) worked better and more
    reliably. Direwolf will run something like 7 decoders in parallel
    and deduplicate the results; it will also apply some heuristics
    to try and recover from 1- and 2-bit errors, use heuristics based
    on known parts of packets, etc. I've found it's superior at
    demodulating more packets relative to a hardware TNC.

    I use mine with a Tigertronics SignaLink USB sound card and an
    old ICOM monobander I bought from a friend.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/05/28 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to tenser on Fri Jun 26 11:44:00 2020
    On 06-25-20 14:52, tenser wrote to dejavu <=-


    I bought a TNC-Pi kit and built it, but honestly, found that
    a software modem (direwolf, in my case) worked better and more
    reliably. Direwolf will run something like 7 decoders in parallel
    and deduplicate the results; it will also apply some heuristics

    Yes, I've heard a lot of good things about Direwolf. I have used it briefly in an APRS setup, and it seemed to work well.

    to try and recover from 1- and 2-bit errors, use heuristics based
    on known parts of packets, etc. I've found it's superior at
    demodulating more packets relative to a hardware TNC.

    I've heard that before, definitely well worth a look.


    ... Rugby is played by men with odd-shaped balls!!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to All on Mon Jan 4 19:03:44 2021
    Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your
    time.

    73
    Scott
    VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to SetiOp on Tue Jan 5 16:56:13 2021
    On 05 Jan 2021 at 12:03a, SetiOp pondered and said...

    Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.

    73
    Scott
    VE3CGN

    Hi Scott.

    Here in Dunedin we have APRS but packet has disappeared also. :(

    A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and
    accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.

    Best, Paul
    ZL4PH

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to SetiOp on Tue Jan 5 16:13:00 2021
    On 01-05-21 00:03, SetiOp wrote to All <=-

    Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.

    Not here that I know of, though I have a project on slow burn to setup a packet BBS "just because". :)


    ... A life? Where can I download that?
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Avon on Tue Jan 5 01:27:13 2021
    Thanks for the reply! I miss the traditional packet BBS and related infrastructure. I have been collecting TNCs just in case I can revive the
    mode. Setting up a packet gateway sounds like fun. :)

    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Vk3jed on Tue Jan 5 01:35:16 2021
    Thanks for the reply! I loved the BBS I had back in the day running FBB. I
    was planning on moving to a Linux-based platform but it never happened. My biggest problem getting packet running here has been antenna height, I need to put up a good digipeater before I can do much else to attract users. Sounds like an interesting project. I would be interested to see what you put together. :)

    73
    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A39 2018/04/21 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Avon on Tue Jan 5 08:13:13 2021
    Avon wrote to SetiOp <=-

    A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.

    Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?



    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Blue White on Wed Jan 6 04:57:17 2021
    On 05 Jan 2021 at 01:13p, Blue White pondered and said...

    A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.

    Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?

    If you're asking about sending echomail over radio, then I would say yes,
    given that the packet radio gear needs to be run by a licensed amateur radio operator. The frequencies you can use will also vary between countries somewhat.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to SetiOp on Wed Jan 6 14:30:00 2021
    On 01-05-21 06:35, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Thanks for the reply! I loved the BBS I had back in the day running
    FBB. I was planning on moving to a Linux-based platform but it never happened. My biggest problem getting packet running here has been
    antenna height, I need to put up a good digipeater before I can do much else to attract users. Sounds like an interesting project. I would be interested to see what you put together. :)

    Yeah, initially it'll just be a simple BPQ mailbox under LinBPQ, but I'll see what my options are eventually.


    ... I have closed my consciousness to all further discussions on that.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Avon on Wed Jan 6 08:07:29 2021
    Avon wrote to Blue White <=-

    On 05 Jan 2021 at 01:13p, Blue White pondered and said...

    A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.

    Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?

    If you're asking about sending echomail over radio, then I would say
    yes, given that the packet radio gear needs to be run by a licensed amateur radio operator. The frequencies you can use will also vary
    between countries somewhat.

    Actually I meant allowing it to be accessed by hams via packet / TCP/IP.
    Of course, I guess once they log on I would be broadcasting, so that may
    have answered my question. :)


    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Blue White on Thu Jan 7 10:13:45 2021
    On 06 Jan 2021 at 01:07p, Blue White pondered and said...

    A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.

    Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?


    If you're asking about sending echomail over radio, then I would say yes, given that the packet radio gear needs to be run by a licensed amateur radio operator. The frequencies you can use will also vary between countries somewhat.

    Actually I meant allowing it to be accessed by hams via packet / TCP/IP. Of course, I guess once they log on I would be broadcasting, so that may have answered my question. :)

    I sorta follow, if a HAM spins up a BBS and makes it available via their
    packet gear then it stands to reason that any other HAM with packet gear
    should be able to access the BBS assuming it's an open system.

    Likewise if someone logins into a BBS via telnet etc. over the Internet and that BBS is linked to packet gear then their messages are going to be sent
    out both via BinkP etc. and radio waves around the same time.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to SetiOp on Fri Jan 8 13:02:57 2021
    On 05 Jan 2021 at 12:03a, SetiOp pondered and said...

    Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.

    I have a setup I can use for packet, and there is packet
    traffic in my area, but not much. Here in the US, traffic
    handlers associated with the NTS still use it, but it's
    not very popular otherwise.

    APRS has taken over as the dominant AX.25-based packet
    protocol. I can see why; packet is slow and frustratingly
    fragile. 1200 BAUD AFSK with no FEC isn't just low bandwidth,
    it's also very high latency and really lossy. For APRS you
    don't generally notice so much, but for anything approaching
    interactive use, it's rough.

    However, over the last week I got my AMPRNet (https://www.ampr.org/)
    and my 44net allocation is back on the Internet; I put a random
    Unix machine on the subnet and want to see if I can have a colleague
    connect to it from across town by packet. That should be kind of
    fun. Who needs a packet BBS when you've got a whole multiuser
    host computer?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to tenser on Fri Jan 8 17:38:45 2021
    Hi Tenser, sorry for the delay replying, I had issues with upgrading the BBS here, which I hope are now sorted out. I used to have AMPR address space many years ago and was looking to set something up again a few years ago but there was very little interest in what I was trying to do. I am interested in
    seeing what you can put together!

    73
    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to SetiOp on Sat Jan 9 23:41:04 2021
    Hi Tenser, sorry for the delay replying, I had issues with upgrading the BBS here, which I hope are now sorted out. I used to have AMPR address space many years ago and was looking to set something up again a few
    years ago but there was very little interest in what I was trying to do.
    I am interested in seeing what you can put together!

    Personally, I think every Ham should grab an AMPRNet allocation:
    either we use that space or we lose it. The sale of the /10 to
    Amazon a couple of years ago was a huge boon for the community,
    in that it gave ARDC a pile of money that it could use for grants
    etc, but ironically also shows that we're underutilizing our
    available resources. Using an HT to call into the local FM
    repeater is great and all, but not really all that interesting.

    I did get my stuff working again, and I updated my 44net routing
    software (my router runs OpenBSD, sadly, so the stock solutions
    for Linux didn't work for me) and wrote up instructions on the
    AMPRNet portal:

    https://github.com/dancrossnyc/44ripd https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_OpenBSD

    I have a timesharing host on my subnet (finger @kz2x.ampr.org
    to see if anyone is logged in...). I also have a RockPi4
    (quad-core aarch64 with 4GiB of RAM, an NVMe SSD, and a real
    ethernet PHY/MAC, not a USB bridge) running Raspbian that
    connects to a 2m rig through a Tigertronics Signalink USB
    soundcard. The RockPi runs direwolf, and what I'd like to do
    now is configure ax25d so that connection to some AX.25 SSID
    will automatically telnet to the timesharing machine (that
    part could be SSH, since it doesn't go over the air, but who
    cares?), then someone can use `axcall` or another AX.25
    terminal to connect into my Unix machine and have access to
    AMPRNet. This should be easy, except that, ironically, line
    endings are causing problems. I'll probably hack up `axspawn`
    to make it run telnet instead of invoking a shell.

    It occurs to me that I might be better having folks telnet into
    a plan9 machine, since someone might try to run `vi` or something
    over AX.25, which is ... not going to work.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to SetiOp on Sun Jan 10 08:26:01 2021
    On 09 Jan 2021 at 12:39p, SetiOp pondered and said...

    It sounds like you have been busy! I really need to look into AMPRNet again and check out the links you sent (thanks for that!). It sounds
    like a lot of fun for sure. Now that I have the BBS back up, I want to
    do some kind of gateways into different networks/machines as well. I am not sure how successful I will be getting my ISP to route a subnet to
    me, but maybe.

    The cool thing about AMPRNet is that you don't need to your
    ISP to route anything to you; you can do it all over tunnels.
    That's what 44ripd does; it reads AMPR RIP packets and sets
    up subnet tunnels and routes. Definitely check it out!

    It has been a long while since I did that kind of stuff
    myself, so I would be learning it all over again. Great to hear packet
    and ham radio alive and well in your area. :)

    Indeed, it's exciting; I just got things hooked up so I can
    gateway to 'telnet' to my Unix host when connecting into my
    packet computer via AX.25, which is kind of cool. Sadly,
    there doesn't seem to be a loopback interface for AX.25, so
    to test it I connected to a local digipeater and then back
    to myself. That works but is imperfect. Oddly, when running
    a command that emits lots of text, I've found some goes missing;
    I suspect I'm writing more text than will fit in a single
    AX.25 packet; perhaps I'll pay with MTUs.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to tenser on Sat Jan 9 07:39:57 2021
    It sounds like you have been busy! I really need to look into AMPRNet again
    and check out the links you sent (thanks for that!). It sounds like a lot of fun for sure. Now that I have the BBS back up, I want to do some kind of gateways into different networks/machines as well. I am not sure how
    successful I will be getting my ISP to route a subnet to me, but maybe. It
    has been a long while since I did that kind of stuff myself, so I would be learning it all over again. Great to hear packet and ham radio alive and well in your area. :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to tenser on Sun Jan 10 14:34:00 2021
    On 01-10-21 04:41, tenser wrote to SetiOp <=-

    Personally, I think every Ham should grab an AMPRNet allocation:
    either we use that space or we lose it. The sale of the /10 to
    Amazon a couple of years ago was a huge boon for the community,
    in that it gave ARDC a pile of money that it could use for grants
    etc, but ironically also shows that we're underutilizing our
    available resources. Using an HT to call into the local FM
    repeater is great and all, but not really all that interesting.

    I have 2 /24s, so I'm doing my bit. :)

    I did get my stuff working again, and I updated my 44net routing
    software (my router runs OpenBSD, sadly, so the stock solutions
    for Linux didn't work for me) and wrote up instructions on the
    AMPRNet portal:

    https://github.com/dancrossnyc/44ripd https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_OpenBSD

    Good work, adding to the documentation base. :)

    I have a timesharing host on my subnet (finger @kz2x.ampr.org
    to see if anyone is logged in...). I also have a RockPi4
    (quad-core aarch64 with 4GiB of RAM, an NVMe SSD, and a real
    ethernet PHY/MAC, not a USB bridge) running Raspbian that
    connects to a 2m rig through a Tigertronics Signalink USB
    soundcard. The RockPi runs direwolf, and what I'd like to do
    now is configure ax25d so that connection to some AX.25 SSID
    will automatically telnet to the timesharing machine (that
    part could be SSH, since it doesn't go over the air, but who
    cares?), then someone can use `axcall` or another AX.25
    terminal to connect into my Unix machine and have access to
    AMPRNet. This should be easy, except that, ironically, line
    endings are causing problems. I'll probably hack up `axspawn`
    to make it run telnet instead of invoking a shell.

    My utilisation of my space is still in itd early days, but I eventually hope to have something up on packet running AX.25 and IP at a minimum. I used to run KA9Q NOS in the old days. :)


    ... Misspelled? Impossible. My modem is error correcting.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Pepper@21:1/187 to tenser on Sun Jan 10 05:26:05 2021
    On 09 Jan 2021 at 12:39p, SetiOp pondered and said...
    The cool thing about AMPRNet is that you don't need to your
    ISP to route anything to you; you can do it all over tunnels.
    That's what 44ripd does; it reads AMPR RIP packets and sets
    up subnet tunnels and routes. Definitely check it out!

    I've had a logon to AMPRNet for a number of years with the intention to do something and register a few IPs. I should get my finger out and do something about it! Off to read some more of the Wiki :)

    -=Pepper=-

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cosmik Debris BBS (21:1/187)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to tenser on Sun Jan 10 07:04:59 2021

    The cool thing about AMPRNet is that you don't need to your
    ISP to route anything to you; you can do it all over tunnels.
    That's what 44ripd does; it reads AMPR RIP packets and sets

    Interesting! I was just looking at the AMPR website and joined the mailing list. I want to build a network in our county, so I think I will
    probably get a subnet and play around with it. I'll let you know how I make
    out with it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From x1pepe@21:1/150 to Avon on Mon Jan 11 14:48:54 2021
    Hi!
    I have a lot interest in that too! :)
    Maybe you could make a cool how-to-Mystic(os whatever)packet-radio video!!! \<(")/

    telnet sotanomsxbbs.org:23
    *The last Msx user in Ibiza*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Sotano Msx BBS (21:1/150)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to tenser on Wed Jan 13 23:40:47 2021
    On 10 Jan 2021 at 01:26p, tenser pondered and said...

    Indeed, it's exciting; I just got things hooked up so I can
    gateway to 'telnet' to my Unix host when connecting into my
    packet computer via AX.25, which is kind of cool. Sadly,
    there doesn't seem to be a loopback interface for AX.25, so
    to test it I connected to a local digipeater and then back
    to myself. That works but is imperfect. Oddly, when running
    a command that emits lots of text, I've found some goes missing;
    I suspect I'm writing more text than will fit in a single
    AX.25 packet; perhaps I'll pay with MTUs.

    So after playing around with the gateway software a bit,
    I have this working pretty reliably now; in particular,
    I don't seem to be dropping text, which is nice.

    It's kind of cool to login over packet and send email to
    other folks. It occurs to me that one could build a
    better traffic BBS out of this.

    Pretty cool.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From lu8fjh@21:1/209 to Vk3jed on Thu Jan 14 09:42:42 2021
    In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.
    I have F6FBB via radio and internet telnet lu8fjh.dyndns.org:6300 lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694 Uronode Netrom tcpip Node
    Two system acces via my Mystic bbs lu8fjh.dyndns.org

    Juan (lu8fjh)

    lu8fjh.ampr.org Web page
    lu8fjh.dyndns.org:23 Mystic
    lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694
    lu8fjh-c64.ddns.net:6400 Petscii BBS Commodore 64
    lu8fjh-c64.ddns.net:6401 Image 2.0 Ansi/Petscii bbs Commdore 64

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: LU8FJH BBS * lu8fjh.dyndns.org:23 (21:1/209)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to lu8fjh on Fri Jan 15 14:46:00 2021
    On 01-14-21 14:42, lu8fjh wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.
    I have F6FBB via radio and internet telnet lu8fjh.dyndns.org:6300 lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694 Uronode Netrom tcpip Node
    Two system acces via my Mystic bbs lu8fjh.dyndns.org

    Packet here is pretty dead, other than APRS, AFAIK. But I'd like to have something up at some stage.


    ... I'm not the one that misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.51
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to SetiOp on Wed Jan 20 09:27:03 2021
    On 19 Jan 2021 at 05:44p, SetiOp pondered and said...

    In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.

    I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time. I am happy
    to see that people are still using it and I might be able send traffic
    to others via RF. I am still deciding what to set up here, but I am looking forward to having something on the air.

    So it's an odd thing. Having recently gone through the hassle
    of setting up a packet station _and_ an AMPRNet subnet, I've
    got some thoughts.

    First, packet. So an initial observation is that the thrill of
    packet for _most_ users just isn't going to be there. What does
    it really offer? The ability to send email and exchange files?
    At the whopping speed of 1200 BAUD? Yeah, that's just not that
    cool. Digital modes like FT8 and FT4 at least let you earn awards
    and work DX; but packet is just like talking on the local repeater:
    no one is going to get a certificate to hang on one's wall for it.
    So the remaining uses end up being special-purpose, like traffic
    handling. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be
    honest: if you're not a traffic handler, you're unlikely to find
    it particularly interesting. C'est la vie; the heaviest use of
    my local repeaters seems to be the nightly traffic nets. Hmm.

    Another issue is that the node software has bitrotted to the point
    of often not working. I've fixed lots of bugs in mine; it now
    "works", to a point, but is disappointingly fragile. It's clear
    that that code hasn't gotten a lot of love in the modern era.

    AMPRNet is more interesting, but what do people want to run on it?
    Standard Internet services, just over an RF circuit? Well, that's
    cool, I guess. I set up a Unix machine as a timesharing "host"
    on my AMPRNet subnet, and wrote a routing daemon, and documented
    how to set up an AMPRNet gateway on OpenBSD. That was all fun,
    but as many accounts as I can give out to local hams, what are they
    going to login and do? Play `adventure`? Hunt the wumpus? I
    guess that's fine, but only holds so much interest. The inevitable
    conclusion is that the only real reason to use it is some kind of special-purpose use, like traffic handling. But the local traffic
    handlers are all used to use FBB or BPQ or JNOS or node or whatever;
    should I write special code for those folks that's just gratuitously
    different? Hmm.

    Which goes back to the point of bugs and such in the software we're
    all using on e.g. AX.25. Arguably all of that should be rewritten
    in a modern, type- and memory-safe language, but then one wonders,
    what's the point? Why go to that effort for supporting low-speed
    AX.25?

    What we really need, I think, to make data on amateur radio really
    interesting, is an embrace of the new. Something like IPv6 over a
    better link-layer protocol (perhaps 6LoWPAN?) and then things like
    HamWan and the BBHN stuff (which seems to have basically shut down).
    Then we can start to do some cool stuff.

    But we've got to get folks interested first. That's the hard part.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to tenser on Wed Jan 20 10:10:45 2021
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: tenser to SetiOp on Wed Jan 20 2021 02:27 pm

    Howdy,

    But we've got to get folks interested first. That's the hard part.

    So I'm with you there.

    I would love to get data flowing over the air - with no ongoing costs to a 3rd party, even if it was a slow speed. Building out (or optimising) a protocol to support this slow speed would be fun...

    But to get to that point, I first need to invest in some equipment - which I'm willing to do.

    Then I need to get licensed, which I'm willing to do too.

    And if I figure out how to glue it all together, if nobody else uses it (and I cant use it to connect with somebody else), then I'm thinking its not worth the
    effort :(

    I believe range is low - so if I cant get traffic more than a few 100klms away, then the opportunity to find interest seems low too...

    ...δεσ∩

    ... It is more rational to sacrifice one life than six. Spock, stardate 2822.3 --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to lu8fjh on Tue Jan 19 12:44:55 2021
    In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.

    I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time. I am happy to see that people are still using it and I might be able send traffic to others via RF. I am still deciding what to set up here, but I am looking forward to
    having something on the air.

    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to tenser on Thu Jan 21 06:47:32 2021
    On 19 Jan 2021 at 05:44p, SetiOp pondered and said...

    In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet

    So it's an odd thing. Having recently gone through the hassle
    of setting up a packet station _and_ an AMPRNet subnet, I've
    got some thoughts.
    [...]

    I used to run a Packet BBS (FBB), a DX Node (DX Spider), a RF to Internet
    APRS gate, a IRLP node. The use of 1200 is a low hurdel that everyone can
    get working due to the small bandwith that the radio passes. I did look
    at going 9600bps, but that required radios that could do it (Limited
    radios pre 2009), and a lot of find tuning.

    I only had one radio that could do it, but that was running the APRs
    gate. #-(

    The interactive user base though had already droped to the less than 10,
    The APRS was getting more use, but was still limited.

    In the end it wasn't worth the effort of re-setting it all up when I
    moved. It was also all running of a old Pentium 3 system running Centos3.

    The AX25 support then was a mess, and hodged with sticky tape and wire to
    keep it all running.


    But kudos to you for getting something working.I still have the radio's,
    TNC's etc, but as you said the software state is a mess. I doubt it would
    even work on todays linux versions.




    \/orlon
    VK3HEG


    --- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv6l)
    * Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to deon on Thu Jan 21 14:35:12 2021
    On 20 Jan 2021 at 03:10p, deon pondered and said...

    I would love to get data flowing over the air - with no ongoing costs to
    a 3rd party, even if it was a slow speed. Building out (or optimising) a protocol to support this slow speed would be fun...

    I too would like to do this. I'm hot on building communications resiliency
    and I like the idea of a ascii BBS running contemporary bbs software
    available to folks to access over RF.

    I've not really played with the older 'built by hams for packet radio bbs' software but from what I've seen I'm not sure I would really like it.

    My ideal would be (as part of a wider plan of communications resilience) to have bbs FTN running over RF packet as a wider option for people to connect should TCP/IP over 'mainstream' internet channels be taken down due to act of god or man etc..

    We really are too dependent on the interent to handle all our global communications. It's a pity modems and copper cables have gone / are going
    the way of the dodo.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From MeaTLoTioN@21:1/158 to Avon on Thu Jan 21 06:05:02 2021
    communications. It's a pity modems and copper cables have gone / are goingthe way of the dodo.

    We still have copper cables here in the UK! Most of the time, it feels like we're still in the dark ages with connectivity, internet and communications etc.

    We finally got Fibre to the Property here some months ago, although it is crazy expensive to get the full package, so as much as I really wanted it, I am gonna have to let it go.

    I am also looking into getting my BBS hooked up to packet radio so it can be reached over the air too. I think it will be great, as long as the speed can be at least 2400 bps, I think any slower than that, it would need to be a different theme entirely, just plain ascii or something and very cut down.

    ---
    |14Best regards,
    |11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N

    |07── |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07── |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07───┐ |07── |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07── |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07┬──┘ |07── |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07─┬ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07───┘
    |07── |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07─┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/12/04 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)
  • From Andre@21:3/117 to SetiOp on Thu Jan 21 03:32:40 2021
    On 19 Jan 2021, SetiOp said the following...

    I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time.

    That's the trouble with a lot of amateur radio, and really some of the
    trouble I see with some of the people who think they're going to start
    a revival with their novel BBS.

    The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to try to have a successful
    contact.

    There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore... Other systems like winlink or olivia do it much better. And there isn't any sort of pushing the envelop of technology with it either, like there is with things like mesh.

    As my elmer said to me, "You missed the boat by about twenty-five years." I wish it weren't true, and I'll probably try to set something up for the Milwaukee metro area this year, but I know it's all in vain.


    Andre
    WT9X

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to SetiOp on Thu Jan 21 08:50:11 2021
    On 19 Jan 2021, SetiOp said the following...

    I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again.

    I just took a HAM radio course online through RAC & Annapolis Valley Amateur Radio Club. I had no idea what I was getting myself into... It was way more complicated than I expected.

    By the end of the course the teacher was telling us that we should be getting ready to write our exams & I'm just sitting there blinking with a dull look on my face.

    I'll need to go over all of the material again and do a few more practice exams before I feel I'm ready. One of these days I'll be VE3<something> and be able to press talk on this handy talky that I have...


    Jay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/16 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Andre on Fri Jan 22 03:40:15 2021
    On 21 Jan 2021 at 08:32a, Andre pondered and said...

    On 19 Jan 2021, SetiOp said the following...

    I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Ca again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time.

    That's the trouble with a lot of amateur radio, and really some of the trouble I see with some of the people who think they're going to start
    a revival with their novel BBS.

    I think people conflate things. There's going back
    to the salad days of AX.25 packet BBSes and things like
    that, and yes, that's just not coming back.

    But I think there's room for experimentation with data
    and digital modes. Things like NPR ("New Packet Radio")
    are good examples of what _can_ be done, if we had a
    more experimental mindset.

    The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to try to have a successful contact.

    ^^ This. More generally, the problem is hams. Here in
    the US, the symbol-rate limit is an unnecessary barrier
    to experimenting with newer modulation types and building
    higher throughput systems. But when I scan through the
    comments on the ARRL proposal to eliminate the symbol rate
    limits from the rules governing the amateur radio service,
    instead using _bandwidth_ limits (which frankly makes a
    lot more sense) much of the argument is against the proposal
    and much of the reason for that are septuagenarians and
    older mad about PACTOR III. "What's wrong with AX.25?!"
    Nothing is _wrong_ with it, but we're supposed to be a
    service that is dedicated in large part to _improving_ the
    state of the radio art.

    There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore... Other systems like winlink or olivia do it much better. And there isn't any sort of pushing the envelop of technology with it either, like there is with things like mesh.

    Yup. You're right. AX.25-style packet is basically dead,
    aside from APRS. I'm much more interested in things like
    HamWan (http://www.hamwan.org/index.html) and the Pugent
    Sound Data Ring forming a high-speed metro-area RF network,
    and coming up with something new and innovative for slow/medium
    speed devices to connect in. AX.25 ain't it. Something like
    6LoWPAN and https://destevez.net/ipv6-for-amateur-radio/ might
    be.

    As my elmer said to me, "You missed the boat by about twenty-five
    years." I wish it weren't true, and I'll probably try to set something
    up for the Milwaukee metro area this year, but I know it's all in vain.

    I'm cool with that. It's what comes next that I'm really
    interested in.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Andre@21:3/117 to tenser on Thu Jan 21 10:44:49 2021
    But I think there's room for experimentation with data
    and digital modes. Things like NPR ("New Packet Radio")

    Hadn't heard of it before now, but it looks pretty fascinating. A hell of a
    lot more interesting then AX.25.

    lot more sense) much of the argument is against the proposal
    and much of the reason for that are septuagenarians and
    older mad about PACTOR III. "What's wrong with AX.25?!"

    That describes literally every aspect of the ham radio community. ARRL and every club are so worried about losing the old guys with outdated interests that they keep wasting all their resources on that fear. Talk to any of the kids under twenty-five and they couldn't care less about EmComm, packet, Facebook groups, etc. They want to experiment and tinker and innovate and build, communicate about it on Discord... and send memes on SSTV.

    That "when all else fails" mantra is fear-based too. "Please don't take our non-profit tax-free status and don't sell off our freqency allocations." We should be selling governments, youth, hackers, makers, and whoever else on
    the notion that we can be innovators again.

    I don't know why I'm ranting. I started this reply merely to mention that I find your posts, Tenser, to be really valuable.


    Thanks,
    Andre
    WT9X

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Runaan BBS (21:3/117)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to MeaTLoTioN on Fri Jan 22 07:31:02 2021
    On 21 Jan 2021 at 11:05a, MeaTLoTioN pondered and said...

    We still have copper cables here in the UK! Most of the time, it feels like we're still in the dark ages with connectivity, internet and communications etc.

    As they roll out fibre here they are pulling copper cables out of homes :(
    They are also decommissioning the analogue gear at the exchanges as they go.

    An issue for m with fibre is if the powers goes off at home and the NTU dies then your VoiP goes with it :(

    the speed can be

    at least 2400 bps, I think any slower than that, it would need to be a different theme entirely, just plain ascii or something and very cut
    down.

    If I ever make progress on this idea here then yes, ascii only and simple
    menus at best would be my advice :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to tenser on Fri Jan 22 16:29:00 2021
    On 01-20-21 14:27, tenser wrote to SetiOp <=-

    First, packet. So an initial observation is that the thrill of
    packet for _most_ users just isn't going to be there. What does
    it really offer? The ability to send email and exchange files?
    At the whopping speed of 1200 BAUD? Yeah, that's just not that

    Other than a few corner cases, I'd agree. Packet these days survives mainly to support APRS it seems. That said, I'll still eventually put something up, just coz I can.

    cool. Digital modes like FT8 and FT4 at least let you earn awards
    and work DX; but packet is just like talking on the local repeater:

    Now that's where my eyes glaze over - I don't really care about DX or awards. I've never claimed an award in my life, paper chasing doesn't thrill me at all.
    I know what I've worked, and I don't care whether you believe me or not. When I really want proof, I make audio recordings. :)

    no one is going to get a certificate to hang on one's wall for it.
    So the remaining uses end up being special-purpose, like traffic
    handling. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be
    honest: if you're not a traffic handler, you're unlikely to find
    it particularly interesting. C'est la vie; the heaviest use of
    my local repeaters seems to be the nightly traffic nets. Hmm.

    No such beasts here, relly.

    Another issue is that the node software has bitrotted to the point
    of often not working. I've fixed lots of bugs in mine; it now
    "works", to a point, but is disappointingly fragile. It's clear
    that that code hasn't gotten a lot of love in the modern era.

    Which software exactly?

    AMPRNet is more interesting, but what do people want to run on it? Standard Internet services, just over an RF circuit? Well, that's
    cool, I guess. I set up a Unix machine as a timesharing "host"
    on my AMPRNet subnet, and wrote a routing daemon, and documented

    There used to be Jabber servers that were useful (ham only), but the one I was using disappeared years ago. :(

    What we really need, I think, to make data on amateur radio really interesting, is an embrace of the new. Something like IPv6 over a
    better link-layer protocol (perhaps 6LoWPAN?) and then things like
    HamWan and the BBHN stuff (which seems to have basically shut down).
    Then we can start to do some cool stuff.

    Yeah, some data that has useful speed and/or range (and can be made to optimise said tradeoff).

    But we've got to get folks interested first. That's the hard part.

    Always.


    ... Behind every successful man is an astonished mother-in-law.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From JF@21:2/110 to Avon on Thu Jan 21 22:48:50 2021
    My ideal would be (as part of a wider plan of communications resilience) to have bbs FTN running over RF packet as a wider option for people to connect should TCP/IP over 'mainstream' internet channels be taken down due to act of god or man etc..

    Amen! I'm very interested in this, and I've been pondering about it for a while. What I imagine is something equivalent to how BBS used to work: mail would be transferred from BBS to BBS over the phone lines, from point to
    point, in such a way as to avoid any long distance charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from one VHF station to the other (or
    maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in
    case of an emergency. Mail could be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best
    path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).

    JF

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/29 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: TELNET://INKTWO/where?=CovinaCA : bbs.inktwo.com (21:2/110)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Warpslide on Fri Jan 22 07:30:26 2021
    practice exams before I feel I'm ready. One of these days I'll be VE3<something> and be able to press talk on this handy talky that I have...

    I wish you luck on your exam. It is a lot of work but it can provide a
    lifetime of enjoyment. The first time I keyed my radio was about thirty years ago! A lot has changed over the years with ham radio but a lot has stayed the same as well. :)

    73
    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Andre on Fri Jan 22 07:41:37 2021
    The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to

    Yes I agree with you. There are enough of us still interested to build a network, but it does need to have a new twist to keep people interested.
    Packet has always seemed a bit complicated to me and it didn't seem to evolve like other technology, maybe because of the limitations on VHF radio
    bandwidth.

    There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore...

    I would agree partially with that. The same could be said for phone modes as well now that we have cell phone technology. It isn't really a fault of the technology as much as what we choose to do with it. APRS is a good example.


    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to tenser on Fri Jan 22 08:08:01 2021
    First, packet. So an initial observation is that the thrill of
    packet for _most_ users just isn't going to be there. What does

    Yeah, it is a bit complicated to set up the infrastructure and it is slow. Those of us who are comfortable in text-only modes are going to be the
    primary users of such a system.

    So the remaining uses end up being special-purpose, like traffic
    handling. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be

    Yes, traffic handling and emergency communications are two possibilities. Situational awareness (APRS) is another possibility. In my area
    emergencies requiring amateur radio are pretty scarce so keeping interest in maintaining infrastructure and maintaining overall interest is difficult. The problem I see is that for traffic handling on packet we need some important traffic to pass on a regular basis.

    AMPRNet is more interesting, but what do people want to run on it?

    This is something I am learning as well. I need a better understanding of how the 44 network ties in and what people are doing with it currently. I
    requested my block, but I haven't heard anything back yet.

    Which goes back to the point of bugs and such in the software we're
    all using on e.g. AX.25. Arguably all of that should be rewritten
    in a modern, type- and memory-safe language, but then one wonders,

    I agree. The last time I installed a BBS it only ran on Windows 95 and I
    ended up with a virus on the machine somehow. We need something modern,
    secure and that serves a modern purpose.

    What we really need, I think, to make data on amateur radio really interesting, is an embrace of the new. Something like IPv6 over a

    I agree totally. I was thinking if end users could connect via wifi on their laptops and use a simple client they would be more apt to use packet even if
    it was slow. Give them something they are familiar with to interface with and leave the RF infrastructure to those who want to dive deeper into that area. Maybe some kind of ham radio social media app of some kind. :)

    Mesh networking is interesting to me as well.

    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to JF on Sat Jan 23 01:33:00 2021
    On 01-22-21 03:48, JF wrote to Avon <=-

    Amen! I'm very interested in this, and I've been pondering about it for
    a while. What I imagine is something equivalent to how BBS used to
    work: mail would be transferred from BBS to BBS over the phone lines,
    from point to point, in such a way as to avoid any long distance
    charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from one VHF station to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't
    necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail could
    be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in
    place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet,
    phone, HF, VHF, etc.).

    Now that sounds like an interesting project.


    ... Find a safe part and use it as an anchor
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to JF on Sat Jan 23 03:37:42 2021
    On 22 Jan 2021 at 03:48a, JF pondered and said...

    Amen! I'm very interested in this, and I've been pondering about it for a while. What I imagine is something equivalent to how BBS used to work: mail would be transferred from BBS to BBS over the phone lines, from
    point to point, in such a way as to avoid any long distance charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from one VHF station
    to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail could be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).

    Yep it feels like this is a 2-3 part problem. Probably the first part if just bolting old protocols and software together with the newer BBS stuff. That I think won't be overly hard. But the bigger issue is how to scale it in a way that others can jump on board and do the same. Without nodes in a mesh you don't have much resilience going on if you can only chat with yourself or 1-2 others locally.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From JF@21:2/110 to Avon on Fri Jan 22 08:58:02 2021
    Hi Avon --

    scale it in a way that others can jump on board and do the same. Without nodes in a mesh you don't have much resilience going on if you can only chat with yourself or 1-2 others locally.

    What we need is a "RF-Mesh-As-A-Service". If we could use a protocol that is already working, onto which we could add FTN as a second layer on top, then most of the hard work would be done. I've heard of projects like AREDN, AMPRNET and HF ALE; I don't know much about them, but I think some of them can provide you with IP connectivity. So yes, below the IP layer there are nodes and
    radios and antennas and a mesh network, but as far as the applications are concerned, they only see IP. This way, we could even keep delivering FTN messages via BinkD... That said, I don't know how well that would work.

    So many possibilities. But you're right, the trick is to make it approachable so that others could easily get onboard.

    JF

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/29 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: TELNET://INKTWO/where?=CovinaCA : bbs.inktwo.com (21:2/110)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Vk3jed on Fri Jan 22 10:48:34 2021
    charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from o VHF station to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail coul be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).

    Now that sounds like an interesting project.

    I agree. This type of project is something I could jump on board with.

    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From JF@21:1/139 to JF on Sat Jan 23 03:21:44 2021
    An afterthought...

    like AREDN, AMPRNET and HF ALE; I don't know much about them, but I
    think some of them can provide you with IP connectivity. So yes, below

    I believe AMPRNET is not that easy to setup, because you're using directional antennas that need to be lined up properly. (GHz range)

    I've read something to the effect of IP being used over AX.25 (don't really know what I'm talking about) but apparently it's excruciating slow.

    There's also Winlink that is interesting... though that doesn't provide
    you with an IP-layer, it's just straight up messaging.

    There's satellite, but that's probably far-fetched.

    JF

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: bitHaven BBS (21:1/139)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Andre on Sat Jan 23 22:05:39 2021
    On 21 Jan 2021 at 03:44p, Andre pondered and said...

    But I think there's room for experimentation with data
    and digital modes. Things like NPR ("New Packet Radio")

    Hadn't heard of it before now, but it looks pretty fascinating. A hell
    of a lot more interesting then AX.25.

    Indeed. I think there are some folks who want to double
    down on old technology like AX.25, but ... why? I mean,
    I got it running here at my QTH and that was kind of fun,
    but no one uses it for anything.

    lot more sense) much of the argument is against the proposal
    and much of the reason for that are septuagenarians and
    older mad about PACTOR III. "What's wrong with AX.25?!"

    That describes literally every aspect of the ham radio community. ARRL
    and every club are so worried about losing the old guys with outdated interests that they keep wasting all their resources on that fear. Talk
    to any of the kids under twenty-five and they couldn't care less about EmComm, packet, Facebook groups, etc. They want to experiment and tinker and innovate and build, communicate about it on Discord... and send
    memes on SSTV.

    It was telling to me that KB6NU noted that there was too much
    emphasis on public service in the ARRL's latest mission on the
    purpose of amateur radio. I agree with him: we are simply too
    focused on that as a mission, without understanding that the
    agencies that are being served frankly don't need us.

    Much ado was made about the 50 hams who went down to Puerto
    Rico after Hurricane Maria and passed traffic, but it's
    important to note that they exclusively passed health and
    welfare traffic.

    The places where amateur radio really serve the public as a
    communications of last resort mechanism are almost entirely
    in the developing world, and that's certainly useful, but in
    order to participate (at least from the US....) you pretty
    much have to have HF privileges.

    The kerfuffle around the league proposing expanded HF privileges
    for technicians is so representative: it's mostly gatekeeping
    by old guys who fear that their contesting stations are going
    to be drowned out by a bunch of lids, but what I think all of
    these things fail to understand is that most techs have no
    interested in HF: "talking on the radio" just isn't that
    interesting. What _is_ interesting is telemetry, remote
    instrumentation control, interfacing with computers and robots,
    and tinkering with radios. All of that can be done with a
    tech license, but why bother jumping through the hoops and
    getting yelled at by a bunch of angry old men when you can just
    buy a Zigbee hat for an arduino or raspberry pi and avoid all
    of that, instead?

    That "when all else fails" mantra is fear-based too. "Please don't take our non-profit tax-free status and don't sell off our freqency allocations." We should be selling governments, youth, hackers, makers, and whoever else on the notion that we can be innovators again.

    I totally agree. The innovation is just not there.

    I don't know why I'm ranting. I started this reply merely to mention
    that I find your posts, Tenser, to be really valuable.

    Thank you! I appreciate that. I'm afraid I succumbed to the rant
    urge myself.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Vk3jed on Sat Jan 23 22:14:31 2021
    On 22 Jan 2021 at 09:29p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

    Another issue is that the node software has bitrotted to the point
    of often not working. I've fixed lots of bugs in mine; it now "works", to a point, but is disappointingly fragile. It's clear
    that that code hasn't gotten a lot of love in the modern era.

    Which software exactly?

    Approximately all of it, but I'm referring specifically to
    the AX.25 tools and apps for Linux. An interesting example
    is, "axspawn": this lets hams log into the local (Linux)
    host, automatically creating accounts for them if such don't
    already exist. The issue is that it's broken, and loses
    data: the Linux AX.25 stack in connected only supports sending
    data using the SEQPACKET socket type, which means that
    individual write(2) calls must limit the amount of data they
    send to fit into a single AX.25 frame. But the `axspawn`
    program doesn't do that; it spawns a pseudo-TTY pair and
    runs a shell on the child end, and just writes whatever comes
    down the parent side to the socket. It's easy enough to fix;
    one simply chunks those writes up in a loop. There was also
    some hokey rate-limiting stuff built around alarm(3), but it
    seemed straight up broken.

    I ended up rewriting it to `telnet` to the Dragonfly machine
    on my local AMPRNet subnet, so when users connect to my host
    they're really `telnet`ing into my host machine, and had to
    fix all of that.

    Another issue was in the `ttylinkd` daemon: this is basically
    an interface to the venerable talkd(8), and speaks the same
    weird undocumented protocol. But its handling of that protocol
    was broken (it didn't talk to the local daemon on the right
    interface) so I had to fix it. That was really annoying.

    I attribute all of this to this software being overly complex
    and essentially unmaintained. I could fix it locally, but
    its tedious.

    Who knows what bugs are lurking in the kernel AX.25 implementation?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to SetiOp on Sun Jan 24 02:32:00 2021
    On 01-22-21 15:48, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from o VHF station to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail coul be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).

    Now that sounds like an interesting project.

    I agree. This type of project is something I could jump on board with.

    I'm not sure of the legalities of passing non ham traffic (third party trsffic rules apply?). But as a test, there's a simple option, setup a dedicated ham network to test out the technology, sort out the legalities later. :)


    ... This is one sick group. I feel that I've finally found my home.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to tenser on Sun Jan 24 03:07:00 2021
    On 01-24-21 03:14, tenser wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Approximately all of it, but I'm referring specifically to
    the AX.25 tools and apps for Linux. An interesting example

    Yeah, the kernel stuff looks well and truly bit rotted. I have been playing with LinBPQ, which seems to work

    Another issue was in the `ttylinkd` daemon: this is basically
    an interface to the venerable talkd(8), and speaks the same
    weird undocumented protocol. But its handling of that protocol
    was broken (it didn't talk to the local daemon on the right
    interface) so I had to fix it. That was really annoying.

    Hmm, yeah that would be a problem. :)

    I attribute all of this to this software being overly complex
    and essentially unmaintained. I could fix it locally, but
    its tedious.

    Who knows what bugs are lurking in the kernel AX.25 implementation?

    A lot of people use non kernel implementations like JNOS and LinBPQ these days.


    ... Aviation Lie ─ I thought YOU took care of that.
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to SetiOp on Sun Jan 24 03:22:00 2021
    On 01-22-21 12:41, SetiOp wrote to Andre <=-

    The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to

    Yes I agree with you. There are enough of us still interested to build
    a network, but it does need to have a new twist to keep people
    interested. Packet has always seemed a bit complicated to me and it
    didn't seem to evolve like other technology, maybe because of the limitations on VHF radio bandwidth.

    There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore...

    I would agree partially with that. The same could be said for phone
    modes as well now that we have cell phone technology. It isn't really a fault of the technology as much as what we choose to do with it. APRS
    is a good example.

    Maybe packet of the future needs to leverage modern SDR hardware, and ditch the limitations of VHF voice radios altogether? Could start playing on 70cm. This might also help improve SDR software, which often lacks poor integration with legacy systems - for example, try building a SDR based repeater or linking a SDR transceiver to something like Echolink, without jumping through a heap of hoops.

    No reason the system can't be capable of being run in voice mode or data - it would be SOFTWARE defined radio, afterall. :)


    ... NEW! John Bobbitt doll. Some disassembly required.
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  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Avon on Sun Jan 24 10:05:56 2021
    On 21 Jan 2021 at 07:35p, Avon pondered and said...

    On 20 Jan 2021 at 03:10p, deon pondered and said...

    I would love to get data flowing over the air - with no ongoing costs a 3rd party, even if it was a slow speed. Building out (or optimising protocol to support this slow speed would be fun...

    I too would like to do this. I'm hot on building communications
    resiliency and I like the idea of a ascii BBS running contemporary bbs software available to folks to access over RF.

    I've not really played with the older 'built by hams for packet radio
    bbs' software but from what I've seen I'm not sure I would really like
    it.

    My ideal would be (as part of a wider plan of communications resilience) to have bbs FTN running over RF packet as a wider option for people to connect should TCP/IP over 'mainstream' internet channels be taken down due to act of god or man etc..

    I think people make a bit of a mistake here by throwing
    the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. The Internet
    was _designed_ for resiliency; it's not like the phone
    company that had to engineer in massive redundancies and
    controls because it was centralized; by design it's
    decentralized and packet routing allows one to get around
    broken links etc.

    I can understand the desire for communications infrastructure
    that doesn't rely on commercial providers: the providers
    themselves can fail, and if that's the only provider, then
    redundancy at the protocol level is just a distinction
    without a difference.

    But the solution here isn't to revert to ancient technology
    (AX.25 and packet BBSes) but rather to build something
    better that provides IP routing on top of autonomous,
    redundant RF links. AMPRNet is a step in the right direction;
    things like AREDN and Hamwan are existence proofs to emulate.
    The next step is a framing format for putting IPv6 datagrams
    directly on the air and doing something with globally
    routable IP spaces.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Pepper@21:1/187 to lu8fjh on Fri Feb 12 06:18:09 2021
    On 14 Jan 2021, lu8fjh said the following...
    I have F6FBB via radio and internet telnet lu8fjh.dyndns.org:6300 lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694 Uronode Netrom tcpip Node

    What's the differences between UroNode and JNOS? There does not seem to be
    much documentation that I can find.
    I like how you've tied them all together, via the BBS.
    I had a quick look last night at your BBS, I'll have a wander more around
    this weekend.
    de k1ymi

    -=Pepper=-

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: Cosmik Debris BBS (21:1/187)
  • From lu8fjh@21:1/209 to Pepper on Fri Feb 12 19:14:16 2021
    Hi. The difference between JNOS and URONODE is that jnos is a BBS with
    the TCPIP protocol over ax25 and uronode is a netrom node that also supports the tcpip protocol wich allows you to do this type of communication via
    telnet for example.

    73s

    Juan (lu8fjh)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: LU8FJH BBS * lu8fjh.dyndns.org:23 (21:1/209)
  • From Roen@21:4/10 to SetiOp on Sun Mar 14 11:25:00 2021
    Boy, I wish I had linked up fsxNet sooner, I missed a great conversation! I spent all evening last night reading this thread. All great, valid points.

    Packet is alive and well here in Maine, and we're linked into New Hampshire and Canada via Houlton, but you're right: it's a very niche market. It's primarily EMAs and hospitals linked with club ECTs and ARES groups. Most of the folks around me in Southern Maine that are tinkering with it here seem to be retired folks with the time to constantly tweak audio levels and mail forwarding rules. I'm one of a few exceptions, age-wise, at 41 years old. However, I'm in it for the emcomm as well.

    I brought up the idea of AREDN out here, but was told the elmers had already done the path studies and found we're too hilly. If we could get to the top of a couple commercial / emergency services towers on a couple of choice mountains, we may be able to set up an AREDN backbone, but then it gets political. I think things are shifting a little in our favor, but who knows when we'll see the results.

    I also found on Facebook that North Carolina has a massive network with guys chatting with each other over the nodes. I'm not sure what their core purpose is, but they are having fun with it. For an introvert like me, and an insomniac that "plays radio" at night when the family is asleep, digital text is a great tool. I wouldn't mind seeing it come back to what I'm told is packet's original glory.

    For giggles, I set up a security level for known hams on my board, and set up telnet links in the Doors menu to the nodes I'm a sysop for: WS1EC at the Cumberland County EMA, and W1YCA at the York County EMA; and their respective emergency communications teams (ham clubs). I'd love to have a radio link into my BBS, but sadly it'd just be me, and it def needs 9600 to be barely tolerable and still color ANSI.

    Anyway, fun chat - it's great to see others out there with similar interests!

    73 de KC1JMH
    Brad

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ El Burro Diablo - elburrodiablo.com
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From Starstorm@21:3/140 to Roen on Sun Mar 14 17:52:47 2021
    On 14 Mar 2021, Roen said the following...
    Packet is alive and well here in Maine, and we're linked into New Hampshire and Canada via Houlton, but you're right: it's a very niche market. It's primarily EMAs and hospitals linked with club ECTs and ARES groups. Most of the folks around me in Southern Maine that are tinkering with it here seem to be retired folks with the time to constantly tweak audio levels and mail forwarding rules. I'm one of a few exceptions, age-wise, at 41 years old. However, I'm in it for the emcomm as well.

    There's not much around here, though I saw somewhere in the next county over from me (Clay county, I'm in Duval, Jacksonville to be specific) there is Winlink, but that's about the extent of it.

    For giggles, I set up a security level for known hams on my board, and
    set up telnet links in the Doors menu to the nodes I'm a sysop for:
    WS1EC at the Cumberland County EMA, and W1YCA at the York County EMA;
    and their respective emergency communications teams (ham clubs). I'd
    love to have a radio link into my BBS, but sadly it'd just be me, and it def needs 9600 to be barely tolerable and still color ANSI.

    That sounds cool, will have to check that out.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Ground Control (21:3/140)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Roen on Mon Mar 15 19:22:00 2021
    On 03-14-21 11:25, Roen wrote to SetiOp <=-

    Boy, I wish I had linked up fsxNet sooner, I missed a great
    conversation! I spent all evening last night reading this thread. All great, valid points.

    Sounds like it's all happening out your way. Other than APRS, there's not a lot of packet around here that I know of, but I would like to get something up, just for the hell of it. :)


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  • From Nkeck72@21:3/122 to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 18 07:47:16 2021
    In article <60531E2D.149.fsx_ham@finalzone.ddns.net>
    "Vk3jed" <vk3jed@21:1/109> writes:

    Other than APRS, there's not a
    lot of packet around here that I know of

    I'm sort of in the same situation, we have APRS and WinLink on VHF, but
    not much else in the way of packet.

    Having an RF BBS sounds like it would be awesome, though.
    -----
    -nkeck72 (Mac Plus)
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
    * Origin: Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net (21:3/122)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Nkeck72 on Fri Mar 19 17:01:00 2021
    On 03-18-21 07:47, Nkeck72 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In article <60531E2D.149.fsx_ham@finalzone.ddns.net>
    "Vk3jed" <vk3jed@21:1/109> writes:

    Other than APRS, there's not a
    lot of packet around here that I know of

    I'm sort of in the same situation, we have APRS and WinLink on VHF, but not much else in the way of packet.

    Having an RF BBS sounds like it would be awesome, though.

    Yeah, will consider my options. I may be setting up a system for a club, in which case, I could make it accessible via packet radio and ham mesh
    etworking.


    ... A man's incomplete until married; then he's finished!
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Roen on Fri Mar 19 21:29:22 2021
    Boy, I wish I had linked up fsxNet sooner, I missed a great
    conversation! I spent all evening last night reading this thread. All

    Always happy to continue the conversation where packet is involved! :)

    Packet is alive and well here in Maine, and we're linked into New

    Not much in my area of Canada, but across the lake in Ohio there appears to
    be some activity. I just ordered a couple of very nice but pricey TNC cables
    so I can start setting something up. I am hoping to link into Ohio since I am only 5 minutes from Lake Erie.

    For giggles, I set up a security level for known hams on my board, and
    set up telnet links in the Doors menu to the nodes I'm a sysop for:

    Thats pretty cool. I have a radio telescope in my back yard so I wrote a door to access statistics and get the status of it. At one point I had it so I
    could move the dish elevation remotely.

    I thought about maybe setting up a door as a ham gateway myself, even if it
    is just me that uses it. :)

    Nice to her from you!

    73
    Scott VE3CGN

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From mobbyg@21:1/101 to All on Mon Mar 22 04:23:31 2021
    Is AMPRNet still a thing? I thought I had seen somewhere that it was kind of going out.

    I did love playing with NOS on my Amiga 500 back in the day using my
    Kamtronics KPC-3 with some of my friends. We had one guy in the next county over helped us getit up and working and we did a lot of cool stuff with it. I had the software which I downloaded from Aminet, but n clue how to really use it.

    I wouldn't mind doing something with packet again. I have an MFJ TNC-2 just sitting here under my Zoom v.32bis and USR 56K modems just itching to get on the air.

    73.
    de Rich, KB2MOB

    |04---- |15Rich Lawrence, KB2MOB
    |14//// |15SysOp of Radio Freqs & Geeks BBS
    |01--v|10/// |07-Ham/Shortwav Radio, Tabletop Gaming and General Geekery- |11\\|02xx/ |08mobbyg@gmail.com

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Roen@21:4/10 to SetiOp on Mon Mar 22 23:01:00 2021
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: SetiOp to Roen on Fri Mar 19 2021 09:29 pm

    Hi Scott,

    A pleasure to chat with you and these other fine hams as well!

    so I can start setting something up. I am hoping to link into Ohio since I am only 5 minutes from Lake Erie.
    I'm certain they'd love to have a Canadian on their network. We used to get a thrill seeing DX contacts crawling our nodes from New Brunswick, and they loved seeing us make our way up.

    Sadly, the infrastructure between Southern Maine and them had been taken down, but others are starting to rebuild. Midcoast Maine is still going strong, we just need to reconnect to them, and then northward!

    Thats pretty cool. I have a radio telescope in my back yard so I wrote a door to access statistics and get the status of it. At one point I had it so
    A radio telescope? Cool! Most I've done with space is download SSTV from the ISS and images from NOAA, and the one contact via the ISS repeater.

    73 de KC1JMH
    Brad

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ El Burro Diablo - elburrodiablo.com
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to mobbyg on Mon May 3 04:50:56 2021
    On 22 Mar 2021 at 04:23a, mobbyg pondered and said...

    Is AMPRNet still a thing? I thought I had seen somewhere that it was
    kind of going out.

    AMPRNet is still very much a thing, but it's a massively
    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nkeck72@21:3/122 to SetiOp on Mon May 3 06:38:04 2021
    SetiOp wrote:
    Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.

    Here in east Tennessee we have a few Winlink nodes as well as quite a
    few APRS digipeaters and even a couple weather stations. We don't have
    any AX.25 nodes but I plan to change that here in the near future. :P
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
    * Origin: Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net (21:3/122)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to tenser on Mon May 3 21:54:00 2021
    On 05-03-21 04:50, tenser wrote to mobbyg <=-

    AMPRNet is still very much a thing, but it's a massively
    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.

    I've already got 2 /24s. :)


    ... We spared no expense.
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  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Nkeck72 on Wed May 5 20:01:09 2021
    Here in east Tennessee we have a few Winlink nodes as well as quite a
    few APRS digipeaters and even a couple weather stations. We don't have
    any AX.25 nodes but I plan to change that here in the near future. :P

    Thanks for the reply! I just picked up another TNC last week myself, hoping to put up one port on the Ohio network frequency and one on a local frequency to link the two. We'll have to see how that works out. Keep me in the loop on
    your progress getting AX.25 running! I am starting from scratch in this area
    as well. Best of luck!

    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Vk3jed on Wed May 5 20:04:22 2021
    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.

    I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I used to have an allocation years ago but I lost it at some point. I'll have to try harder I guess. For now I am going to focus on getting the RF running here.

    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/143 to SetiOp on Fri May 7 19:25:00 2021
    On 05-05-21 20:04, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.

    I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
    used to have an allocation years ago but I lost it at some point. I'll have to try harder I guess. For now I am going to focus on getting the
    RF running here.

    Bummer. If you can't raise your coordinator, it's work asking on the 44net mailing list.


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  • From SetiOp@21:4/140 to Vk3jed on Sat May 8 17:02:09 2021
    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.
    I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
    Bummer. If you can't raise your coordinator, it's work asking on the 44net mailing list.

    Yeah I admit I haven't tried that, I'll have to do that. I am sure there is some coordinator looking after the block who can help on the list. I'll try that.

    Thanks
    Scott

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Redshift BBS (21:4/140)
  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to SetiOp on Wed May 12 19:14:00 2021
    On 05-08-21 17:02, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.
    I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
    Bummer. If you can't raise your coordinator, it's work asking on the 44net mailing list.

    Yeah I admit I haven't tried that, I'll have to do that. I am sure
    there is some coordinator looking after the block who can help on the list. I'll try that.

    If all else fails, the global coordinator should see your post.


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  • From Phigan@21:4/10 to Vk3jed on Sun Jun 13 22:30:29 2021
    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: Vk3jed to Nkeck72 on Fri Mar 19 2021 05:01 pm

    Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@21:1/109 to Phigan on Mon Jun 14 19:11:00 2021
    On 06-13-21 22:30, Phigan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Re: Re: Packet Radio
    By: Vk3jed to Nkeck72 on Fri Mar 19 2021 05:01 pm

    Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS
    up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?

    I haven't done it myself, but there are people who know how to do it. Might me something 'd like to try at some stage. Would need a dedicated heme.


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  • From N1uro@21:4/107 to Phigan on Tue Jun 15 11:16:00 2021
    Hello Phigan;

    Phigan wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS
    up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?

    What BBS software are you looking to use? Most of them have migrated over to linux. For DOS, I can think of 2 you may desire to look at:

    MFNOS - which will also give you TCP/IP functions and a NetRom node
    MSYS - which will give you a NetRom node.

    I have the last versions of each available if you need them. MFNOS will
    require Borland C to compile which I also may have a copy floating
    around.

    For linux, I'll suggest URONode and LinFBB. You can get both of those on sourceforge.

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