• Re: Windows 11

    From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 6 09:24:00 2021
    I've heard today (October 5, 2021) is the official release day of
    Windows 11. I might see if a Windows 11 update appears in my Windows Update for my PC this evening (I've heard they're not rolling it out all at once). If you're using Windows 11, I'm curious what you think of it?

    Nightfox

    I don't use Windows, at all - however I just got a new laptop and think I should have some Windows install...

    This new laptop is a powerhouse and... is it smart/the norm to run Windows 11 [or 10] in a VM? I don't really want/need to get OUT of Linux - only have Windows when needed. [Running RipTEL or some light steam games.]

    And... does my Windows 10 key work for Windows 11? Hmmmmm....



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to paulie420 on Wed Oct 6 10:20:11 2021
    Re: Re: Windows 11
    By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 06 2021 09:24 am

    I don't use Windows, at all - however I just got a new laptop and think I should have some Windows install...

    This new laptop is a powerhouse and... is it smart/the norm to run Windows 11 [or 10] in a VM? I don't really want/need to get OUT of Linux - only have Windows when needed. [Running RipTEL or some light steam games.]

    I don't see anything wrong with running Windows in a VM. There are Mac OS and Linux users who do that.

    And... does my Windows 10 key work for Windows 11? Hmmmmm....

    Did your new laptop come with Windows? If so, I'd imagine you could make a backup of that and restore the backup in a VM and see if/how well it works. I've heard current users who bought Windows 10 (or had Windows 10 come with a PC/laptop) should be able to update to Windows 11 for free. I don't know if a Windows 10 key will work for a fresh Windows 11 install, but at least a Windows 10 install could be able to update to Windows 11.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Nightfox on Wed Oct 6 17:25:47 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Nightfox to All on Tue Oct 05 2021 12:47 pm

    I've heard today (October 5, 2021) is the official release day of Windows 11. I might see if a Windows 11 update appears in my Windows Update for my PC this evening (I've heard they're not rolling it out all at once). If you're using Windows 11, I'm curious what you think of it?

    Microsoft's compatibilty checker says my 16-core AMD Bulldozer server-class processor circa 2015 is not good enough to run Windows 11. I'll see if I can install/upgrade-to it on one of my other Windows systems, but from what I've seen in the preview videos, I'm in no hurry.
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #75:
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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to paulie420 on Wed Oct 6 18:06:00 2021
    Hello paulie420!

    ** On Wednesday 06.10.21 - 09:24, paulie420 wrote to Nightfox:

    This new laptop is a powerhouse and... is it smart/the norm to run Windows 11 [or 10] in a VM? I don't really want/need to get OUT of Linux - only have Windows when needed. [Running RipTEL or some light steam games.]

    How did you configure your framework laptop?

    What's the battery life like?


    --- OpenXP 5.0.50
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Digital Man on Wed Oct 6 21:46:56 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Oct 06 2021 05:25 pm

    Microsoft's compatibilty checker says my 16-core AMD Bulldozer server-class processor circa 2015 is not good enough to run Windows 11. I'll see if I can install/upgrade-to it on one of my other Windows systems, but from what I've seen in the preview videos, I'm in no hurry.
    --

    yeah i'm suprised to see that my i7-7700 processor cant handle it.

    that's nuts. whats so special about windows 11.

    i'm not going to upgrade; this processor is more than enough for what i do. when i download new games it plays them fine.
    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Thu Oct 7 05:59:47 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Oct 06 2021 09:46 pm

    Re: Windows 11
    By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Wed Oct 06 2021 05:25 pm

    Microsoft's compatibilty checker says my 16-core AMD Bulldozer server-class processor circa 2015 is not good enough to run Windows 11. I'll see if I can install/upgrade-to it on one of my
    other Windows systems, but from what I've seen in the preview videos, I'm in no hurry.
    --

    yeah i'm suprised to see that my i7-7700 processor cant handle it.

    that's nuts. whats so special about windows 11.

    i'm not going to upgrade; this processor is more than enough for what i do. when i download new games it plays them fine.

    You can say that again. Why are regular consumers going to throw perfectly working gear in the trash in order to run a new Windows version is beyond me.

    When I was a kid and I used Windows, every time Microsoft released a new version, I feel on my knees tearing my clothes appart and screamin "No, not again! They are forcing an upgrade again!"

    Now I use something else, every time my Linux distribution or BSD provider releases something new, I jump up and down yellin "Yay, more awesome stuff for free!"

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Oct 7 09:08:23 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Oct 06 2021 09:46 pm

    yeah i'm suprised to see that my i7-7700 processor cant handle it.

    An i7-7700 could probably handle Windows 11 just fine. Microsoft has just chosen not to support that processor.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Thu Oct 7 09:12:46 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Oct 07 2021 05:59 am

    You can say that again. Why are regular consumers going to throw perfectly working gear in the trash in order to run a new Windows version is beyond me.

    I heard Windows 10 will still be supported until 2025. So there shouldn't be any problems with that, and by then, many people might want a new PC anyway.

    When I was a kid and I used Windows, every time Microsoft released a new version, I feel on my knees tearing my clothes appart and screamin "No, not again! They are forcing an upgrade again!"

    I didn't really feel that way when I was a kid.. But maybe it's because when I was a kid, Windows 3.0 and 3.1 were the new things, and when Widnows 95 came out, that was a very significant upgrade. When Windows 95 came out, many people were excited about it, and people even lined up outside of stores to buy it.

    My computer wasn't quite powerful enough to run Windows 95 very well at the time, but after a while I bought a new computer.

    I thought it was interesting to see the new advancements when new versions of Windows came out. I don't think they're forcing us to upgrade though. We can stick with an older version if we want (though, software companies will eventually stop supporting the older versions).

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Oct 7 09:15:34 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Oct 07 2021 09:03 am

    i think it's because i have something disabled on my motherboard. it would have been nice if it told me WHAT the problem was.

    I've heard Windows 11 generally only supports 8th-generation and newer Intel Core processors (with some exceptions). So for your i7-7700, it's not just something you can enable on the motherboard. I've read Microsoft apparently says Windows is more stable on newer processors, and they want people to have a good experience with Windows. I also read it may have something to do with the Spectre & Meltdown CPU flaws that were revealed a few years ago, and Microsoft might not want to have to include the software patches for those (the newer processors generally have hardware fixes for those).

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Oct 7 12:13:14 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Oct 07 2021 09:08 am

    Re: Windows 11
    By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Oct 06 2021 09:46 pm

    yeah i'm suprised to see that my i7-7700 processor cant handle it.

    An i7-7700 could probably handle Windows 11 just fine. Microsoft has just chosen not to support that processor.

    Nightfox

    i had to turn on 2 features. it couldnt tell that i turned on secure boot.
    and my processor is black listed.

    for sure it can handle windows 11 just fine.

    i'm not sweating it.
    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Fri Oct 8 07:05:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to All <=-

    I've heard today (October 5, 2021) is the official release day of
    Windows 11. I might see if a Windows 11 update appears in my Windows Update for my PC this evening (I've heard they're not rolling it out
    all at once). If you're using Windows 11, I'm curious what you think
    of it?

    I don't think I have TPM 2.0 (I have a 3 year-old consumer-grade PC) and the upgrader complains that I have a too-old processor for it (even though it's
    a 4-core i7)

    Sounds like there's a way to upgrade it, but I'm happy for now - when I upgrade it'll be to elsewhere.


    ... Overtly resist change
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to paulie420 on Fri Oct 8 07:07:00 2021
    paulie420 wrote to Nightfox <=-


    I don't use Windows, at all - however I just got a new laptop and think
    I should have some Windows install...

    This new laptop is a powerhouse and... is it smart/the norm to run
    Windows 11 [or 10] in a VM? I don't really want/need to get OUT of
    Linux - only have Windows when needed. [Running RipTEL or some light
    steam games.]


    I've run Windows in Virtualbox for that very reason, but games usually need more than a virtualized GPU. Sounds like you could run QEMU and pass through tasks to the GPU.

    And... does my Windows 10 key work for Windows 11? Hmmmmm....

    I don't know. It was one of the worst-kept secrets that Windows 7 keys
    worked to upgrade to Windows 10, even as of last year.


    ... Overtly resist change
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Sun Oct 10 17:30:00 2021
    I don't see anything wrong with running Windows in a VM. There are Mac
    OS and Linux users who do that.

    Yea, so... I spun up a Win10 VM in Proxmox with no issues at all. I mainly use it to use RIPtel for calling RIP boards; but at least I have Windows if NEEDED now. :P

    Did your new laptop come with Windows? If so, I'd imagine you could
    make a backup of that and restore the backup in a VM and see if/how well it works. I've heard current users who bought Windows 10 (or had
    Windows 10 come with a PC/laptop) should be able to update to Windows 11 for free. I don't know if a Windows 10 key will work for a fresh
    Windows 11 install, but at least a Windows 10 install could be able to update to Windows 11.

    No, I bought it with no OS - but I have a Win10 key that I bought online somewhere... Windows is a funny beast, the copy I have doesn't even ask for a key at all... I think I remember that maybe it asks you after 30 days or whatever. Also, the .iso had "activated" in the filename so... who knows. Either way I have a valid key - maybe I need to hunt down where to enter it in.

    And, I installed Windows 10. With 11 right around the corner, I do want to upgrade to it... especially since this install isn't super important or what I use on the daily.



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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Ogg on Sun Oct 10 17:41:00 2021
    This new laptop is a powerhouse and... is it smart/the norm to run Og> p> Win
    11 [or 10] in a VM? I don't really want/need to get OUT of Linux - Og> p> onl
    have Windows when needed. [Running RipTEL or some light steam Og> p> games.]

    How did you configure your framework laptop?

    What's the battery life like?

    I ordered the I7-1165g version, its the middle option with only one better processor available - the I7-1185. I put 32gb of 3200 RAM in it and a 1TB fast SSD. (Wish I'd of bit the bullet and bought a 4TB NVMe - as it only has that one location for drive space.)

    Furthermore, I got a bunch of the user ports - one of which is a 256GB USB disk; thats one of my favorite part of the laptop, these user-interchangable user ports. When I first populated them, I put USB-C, mini-SD, HDMI and the 256GB... but have since switched to 2-USB-A, 1-USB-C and the 256GB drive - and moved them around a bit too... its really nice to be able to switch those out on the fly. And, the CAD files are up on github so that we can design anything we might want to cook up. I/O, a magnetic [Magsafe-like] charge port or anything. I anticipate that people might come up with some neat stuff in the future.

    I run Fedora on it; I'm normally an Ubuntu guy, but Fedora is supporting the Frame.work and a respin of Fedora 34 has most all the hardware supported - like the fingerprint reader... altho that thing [and all fingerprint readers] kinda suck under Linux anyway. I can't be happier with Fedora, I'm really kinda enjoying it. For me, the GNOME extensions offer enough in customization - I used to like messing around with KDE, but its been nice to just... not. Add some extensions that make sense for me and lean into GNOME - I kinda dig it.

    The battery life is decent, but not the best. I'm seeing around 5hrs but I do use the heck out of the machine when I've been testing it. Not too much idling or basic www stuff... I usually have a suite of open software. It has a BIOS option to turn the battery OFF - doesn't sound like you'd need that, but - for me its a good feature. I'm usually on A/C.

    The Frame has been pretty nice so far. Now if I had my choice, I'm of wanted an AMD chip. The Intel certainly doesn't have the cores that AMD offers - but I came off 12 year old Thinkpad hardware... to me, this thing screams. I wanted to support Frame.work and what they're trying to do for right to repair. The engineering in this thing is really impressive. Open, scan a QR and info is in front of your face. Nice - they did a good job, too... small things like the keyboard has a fairly long connection cable - you won't rip it out when removing the keyboard.

    I'd suggest it to anyone looking for new Intel hardware. Now that the MBPs can take some Linux distros, thats a strong contender IMO - but this is different. I like different. Hopefully the company makes it and offers upgrades in the future. Guess time will tell.

    :P



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  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to All on Sun Oct 17 19:17:00 2021
    My computer is not likely going to handle Windows 11. Ryzen 7 1700, but I am thinking I
    might just get a mac mini 16gb ram with 512gb storage and go from there.
    ---
    ■ wcQWK 8.0 ≈ Inland Utopia * iutopia.duckdns.org:2323
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Oct 20 07:13:38 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to All on Sun Oct 17 2021 07:17 pm

    My computer is not likely going to handle Windows 11. Ryzen 7 1700, but I am thinking I
    might just get a mac mini 16gb ram with 512gb storage and go from there.

    My policy is not to upgrade my hardware just because some shinny software appeared over the horizon. Specially if I don't need the new software. Most often I can't justify the expense.

    I mean I am running on junk hardware from 2007 and I am more productive than a lot of people running the newest cool thing on the newest cool hardware.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Wed Oct 20 10:03:29 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Arelor to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Oct 20 2021 07:13 am

    My policy is not to upgrade my hardware just because some shinny software appeared over the horizon. Specially if I don't need the new software. Most often I can't justify the expense.

    I heard Windows 10 will still be supported until 2025. So there's still some time.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Wed Oct 20 14:06:36 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Oct 20 2021 10:03 am

    Re: Windows 11
    By: Arelor to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Oct 20 2021 07:13 am

    My policy is not to upgrade my hardware just because some shinny software appeared over the
    horizon. Specially if I don't need the new software. Most often I can't justify the expense

    I heard Windows 10 will still be supported until 2025. So there's still some time.

    Nightfox


    I couldn't care less. OpenBSD 7.0 got released recently and that is what I am upgrading stuff too.
    Yay!

    --
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Moondog on Thu Oct 21 04:17:31 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: Moondog to MATTHEW MUNSON on Wed Oct 20 2021 07:27 pm

    Re: Windows 11
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to All on Sun Oct 17 2021 07:17 pm

    My computer is not likely going to handle Windows 11. Ryzen 7 1700, but I am might just get a mac mini 16gb ram with 512gb storage and go from there.

    No better time to ditch Windows than during a new version release. You'll never miss it unless you're a pc gamer

    well we have 25 years. pretty sure windows 11 wont be around by then. for whatever their reasons for blacklisting some processors, there's a chance they will create a work around.

    i prefer windows 10 but i always have a linux console open.
    ---
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Thu Oct 21 19:19:47 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Oct 21 2021 04:17 am

    No better time to ditch Windows than during a new version release.
    You'll never miss it unless you're a pc gamer

    well we have 25 years. pretty sure windows 11 wont be around by then. for whatever their reasons for blacklisting some processors, there's a chance they will create a work around.

    I've been running Windows 11 for quite awhile now, as I'm on the "Fast Track" for Windows Insider. Technicaly the CPU I use is not supported (Intel I7-6700K), but I guess they removed the "blacklisting" stuff for the Insider builds.

    It's been running fine. I barely notice any difference, other than right-click menus being drastically simplified (grr). I was able to move the taskbar back to a more standard windows layout, with the start button on the left.

    The fucking start menu though. ooh boy. I hate it. I hate it more than I hated the fuckup that was Windows 8.

    If I'm forced to roll back at some point, I probably will, and I'll stick with windows 10. I did upgrade my RAM to 64GB a few weeks ago, and popped in a new video card (since I was able to get one at a halfway decent price).

    If I have to upgrade the CPU/Motherboard, I'll probably go AMD. Which means I'll have to buy new RAM, too, but the old stuff is easy enough to sell on ebay for a decent price.

    The 512GB m.2 drive, and my two 1TB m.2 drives can just just stay where they are.




    i prefer windows 10 but i always have a linux console open.

    DaiTengu

    ... Failure is a measurement that depends on the standard applied.

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to DaiTengu on Thu Oct 21 22:06:54 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: DaiTengu to MRO on Thu Oct 21 2021 07:19 pm


    The fucking start menu though. ooh boy. I hate it. I hate it more than I hated the fuckup that was Windows 8.


    see if you can use that start menu replacement. i cant remember the name but it's on nnite.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Thu Oct 21 20:15:03 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: DaiTengu to MRO on Thu Oct 21 2021 07:19 pm

    It's been running fine. I barely notice any difference, other than right-click menus being drastically simplified (grr). I was able to move

    One of the items on this page explains how to get the full context menus back in Windows 11:
    https://cnet.co/3DVyuv0

    Full URL: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/youve-just-installed-windows-11 -heres-how-to-make-it-more-like-windows-10/

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Thu Oct 21 06:48:00 2021
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I couldn't care less. OpenBSD 7.0 got released recently and that is
    what I am upgrading stuff too. Yay!

    Dang, I knew I forgot something when I was in the office yesterday!

    We have 2 300/300 circuits in an empty office, when I go into the office I make a point of saturating it. I've been uploading all of my media to
    OneDrive and downloading ISOs.


    ... Try faking it
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Sat Oct 23 10:19:07 2021
    Re: Re: Windows 11
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Fri Oct 22 2021 11:29 pm

    An i7-7700 could probably handle Windows 11 just fine. Microsoft
    has just chosen not to support that processor.

    They're drawing a line in the sand at TPM2 and Secure Boot.

    I don't think those depend on the processor though..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to DaiTengu on Sun Oct 24 13:33:04 2021
    Re: Windows 11
    By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Sun Oct 24 2021 10:35 am

    matches your desktop.

    I went back to the Win10 layout because I oddly miss my tiles in my start menu. But now I need to try and rearrange them all in groups like I had them.


    For the record, Stardock's licensing is trash. and I'm only using this because i foolishly gave them money a long time ago. I'll use it until I can't, then I'll figure something else out.


    does classic start work out fine for you? it's on nnite.
    what i remember about windowblinds is it takes up a lot of resources and craps out a lot.
    ---
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to DaiTengu on Sat Oct 30 21:34:00 2021
    DaiTengu wrote to paulie420 <=-

    @MSGID: <617C0FFD.2972.dove-hwswhelp@warensemble.com>
    @REPLY: <61773578.17473.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    Re: Re: Windows 11
    By: paulie420 to DaiTengu on
    Mon Oct 25 2021 03:46 pm

    I'm currently giving ZorinOS Pro an install. It, unlike ZorinOS Core, has Win/MacOS and other themes included and also has WINE *setup* for a user that might not grasp how to do that in a usable way. WINE allows you to run some, if not most, Windows applications under Linux.

    It might be a good OS for you to give a try... it costs $39, but like I stated above you can try Core out for free - I think that Core still has WINE installed... just no support from the Zorin folks.

    I'm pretty familiar with WINE. The ham radio applications I use on Windows don't have an equivelant counterpart under Linux, and are too complex for WINE to deal with, with serial connections audio cabling
    and whatnot.

    Also, newer video games never run well under WINE, if at all. I just picked up the new Guardians of the Galaxy game, as of right now reports are it won't run at all under WINE (or any of the forks designed for PC Gaming).


    The other reason I stick with Windows is because it's mindless. I can install and run whatever without having to tinker and fiddle with
    things, or edit 30 different config files, or find the right library
    for compatability.

    I spent all day dealing with Linux at work. when I'm done with work, I don't want to spend my free time dealing with it, too.

    Wierd, I moved away from Windows to Linux because I didn't want to mess around with the OS all the time. Granted this was back in 2000, and I was using Windows 98, but I got tired of reinstalling Windows 98 all the time, having to wipe it, reinstal, put my configuration back the way I liked it. With Linux I wanted an OS I could install once, configure, and it would stay that way.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Nov 10 17:06:50 2021
    Re: Re: Windows 11
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Utopian Galt on Mon Nov 08 2021 08:28 am

    Utopian Galt wrote to Moondog <=-

    Desktop computers that can game are becoming too pricey. I cant justify burning 1500 bucks on one now.

    I bought a used Dell Inspiron 3847 with an i7 and 16 GB of RAM for $175. Added a $100 Nvidia card, think it's a GT1030, and I can get 60 FPS out of War Thunder at medium res. 40 at high. 50 when I custom tune it based on the Nvidia optimizing app.


    ... Simple subtraction

    I probably shoulĄd not be asking this, but did you buy it from a shady guy in
    a dark alley in Detroit or something? Because dealers of used IT have computers like that in store but they don't sell them for 175 bucks precisely.

    --
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